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List of Proprietary Trading Firms at Trader’s Narrative

List of Proprietary Trading Firms

I’ve been looking into proprietary trading firms (known across the pond as ‘trading arcades’) but it is frustrating since there isn’t a comprehensive list of prop trading firms anywhere. So I did the grunt work and combined the different online lists and directories to create the most comprehensive list of proprietary trading firms out there. I still may have missed one or two, so let me know if you can’t find a prop shop that should be on the list below.

There are so many firms out there, and they offer so many different combination of fees, environments, training, remote/on site, market specialization, training, etc that you really have to do your homework. Start by asking around for reputable firms but don’t be afraid to check out a new firm (as long as you do your due diligence). Nothing beats going to their location and pressing flesh and taking a look around. The great thing for traders is that there are a lot of firms out there, so be picky.

Here are some additional thoughts:

  • Find out all fees you may be charged (not just commissions)
  • Canadians have the bonus of not needing Series 7
  • Read the contract!! (or have a lawyer read it for you)
  • Do they offer training? mentoring? by who and how? for how long?
  • Who are the owners?
  • Talk to those who have gone through the program
  • One trick pony (rebate)? or multiple strategies and markets?
  • What is the vibe in the office? what kind of people work there?
  • What software & trading platforms do they use?
  • How up to date is their hardware and software?
  • Access to proprietary technology software or is it all off the shelf?
  • How long have they been around?
  • Do you need a license? Will they sponsor you?
  • Check and confirm their regulatory affiliations and exchange membership(s)
  • Look up any regulatory infractions, disciplinary actions or judgments against them
  • Ask for a copy of the firm’s most recent financial statements
  • Get feedback on the firm & the plan offered you from other traders (EliteTrader and other messageboards)
  • Confirm their clearing firm and make sure it is a financially stable, reputable one

proprietary trading prop trading firms.png
Trading floor at Marex Trading (previously Refco) at 155 Bishopsgate, City of London

Comprehensive List of Proprietary Trading Firms

Advantage Futures
Alaron Trading
Allston Trading
Altrion Trading
Angle Group
Archelon Group
Avatar Securities

Barkley Trading
Bastion Capital Group
Bear Capital
Belvedere Trading
Benchmarq Trading
Bimunai Investments
Blue Capital Group
Boss Trading
Boston Cabot
(Chicago - 312-498-7041)
Breakwater Trading
Broad Street Trading
Bright Trading
Buttonwood Group Trading

Cago Trading
Caliber Financial Management
Carlin Group
Capital Traders Group
Cheiron Trading
Chicago Trading
Chimera Securities
Chopper Trading
Coastal Trade Securities
Consolidated Trading
Cornerstone Trading Group
Curvalue Financial Services Group
Cy Group

Darwin Capital Trading
Dayson Capital
Davis Securities
Dimension Trading Group
Dimension Capital Partners
Discrete Systems
Discrete Trading
DRW Trading Group
DV Trading

Echo Trade
Eldorado Trading Group
Element Trading
Epiphany Trading
Equitrade Financial
Equity Trading Capital
Excel Trading
Europrop Trading
Evolution Capital

First North American Trading
First New York Securities
FCT Group of Companies
Flat Iron Trading
Foxbat Capital
Frontline Capital
Fusionary Trading
Futex Group

G2 Trading
Gator Trading Partners
Getco, LLC
Gelber Group
Gemini Capital
Genesis Securities
Geneva Trading
Golden Beneficial
Golden Market
Group One Trading
Guardian Trading

Hanley Group
Hawkeye Securities
HLV Capital
Hold Brothers
HTG Capital Partners

Infinium Capital Management
Integra Capital
International Trading Group/ DE Trading Corp
IMC Financial Markets

Jane Street Capital
Jaycee Capital
JC Trading Group
Jump Trading

KM Capital Management
Kershner Trading
Keystone Trading
Kingstree Trading

Lake Street Trading
Last Atlantis Capital
League Trading
LES Trading
Lion Pride Trading
Liquid Tree Group
(New York)
Locus Trading
Lynx Capital

Madison Proprietary Trading Group
Mako Global
MBH Trading
MGB Trading
MJL Partners
M&N Trading
MAREX Trading
Marquette Partners
Mazel Trading
(Los Angeles)
Motive Capital

Nico Trading

Ocean View Capital
Onyx Equity Traders (options)
Opus Atlanta

Paramount Equity Partners
Platinum Plus Trading
Prestige Capital
Principal Trading Partners
Prism Trading Group
The Prop Trader
ProTrade Securities
Pulsar Capital

Refco Trading Services (Man Financial)
Remata Trading
Remote Day Trader
Rho Trading Securities
Ritzy Capital
RML Trading
Riverbank Capital
Ronin Capital
Rosenthal Collins Group

S&B Capital
Saxon Financials
Semper Fi Trading
SFG Trading
Sharmac Capital
Simplex Investments
SMB Capital
SMW Trading Company
Soldier Capital
Sperling Enterprises
Spot Trading
Star Alliance Capital One
Starmark Prop Trading
Swift Trade
System 2 Trading

Tibra Capital
Tibra Capital
Titan Securities
Title Trading
Toro Trading
Tower Hill Trading
Trade Vision Group
Traders Capital
Trading RM
Traditum Group
Transact Futures
Transmarket Group
Triton Trading
Trillium Trading
Trinity Capital
Tuco Trading
- SEC Action
TUI Trading

Yourika Capital
Xerxes Trading

Van der Moolen (US & Europe)
Vankar Trading
VTrader Group
Velez Capital
Vortex Capital

Wasserman Capital
Wescott Group
Wolverine Trading
World Trade Securities
WTS Proprietary Trading Group

Zinc Trading
Z-Marc II

Here’s a list of European (mainly London based) or overseas Prop Firms:

Alaric Securities (Bulgaria)
Aldersgate Trading
Argo Traders
Aurelia Traders (Singapore)
Avalon Capital
Blue Point Trading (Italy)
Blueprint Capital (London)

Candlestick Trading Company
CFT Financials
Cologne Independent Traders
Custom House Capital

Dubai Professional Trading Group
Elite Derivatives
Enigma Trading Services
Europrop Trading
(Poland, Spain)
Futex Group

Global Exchange Trading
Global Trading Plus
GHF Financials
Hamilton Court Capital
Heron Futures

Kyte Group
Kuranda Trading
League Traders
London Capital Group
London Global Investments
London Stone Trading

Mercury Financial
MET Traders
MTA Trade
Nevis Trading

OCM Capital
(UK & Poland)
Positive Equity
Propex Derivatives
Pyne Trading
Quay Trading

Saxon Financials
Schneider Group
Shark Traders
Seuqoia Capital
Sigma Derivatives

TCA Markets
TM Global Capital
Trader Hill
Traders Clearing Alliance
Trading Places
Triniti Financial
Turtle Futures
TXL Trading

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1199 Responses to “List of Proprietary Trading Firms”  

  1. 1 Jamie

    Thanks for putting such a comprehensive list together. What is series 7 btw?

  2. 2 Babak

    It’s a US thing, sort of like our CSC but a bit tougher. You need to have it before you can trade prop - or atleast be sponsored by the firm to write the series 7 license exam

  3. 3 Jim

    Check link for Wolverine trading. Should be

  4. 4 Babak

    Thanks Jim - fixed.

  5. 5 Tyro

    Canadian firms don’t require Canadian traders to have their Series 7. US firms do require Canadian traders have their Series 7. So when I (a Canadian) traded with Bright (American, but with Canadian offices), I had to get my Series 7. When I traded with Questrade and Swift, they didn’t care.

  6. 6 Rahul

    Thanks for the list Babak. I have been looking for one but kept getting unsatisfactory results. This was quite welcome.


  7. 7 Babak

    you’re welcome Rahul, thanks for stopping by :)

  8. 8 Dirk

    A Series 7 is not needed in Canada? That’s cool! How can I get in? Would I have to become a Canadian citizen? How easy/hard is that?

  9. 9 John Croford

    Finding an equity trading that fits you is hard. But if you are looking for the training, Nexis Capital is by far the best on the street. A few groups on the above list are actually subcompanies of Nexis. They own their trading platform and the broker dealer so their rates are the most competitive. If you are new Nexis is the way to go!

  10. 10 Caravaggio

    Good list Babak. Some of these firms have UK offices, so it’s something for me to look in to. There is also MAKO trading ( …they are primarily derivatives traders but look like a solid, reputable outfit. I summarised what they are looking for on my blog:

  11. 11 John Hall

    I think this is really interesting and I plan on using it in future job hunts.

    I’m wondering if there is something particular that can make you stand out in a sea of applicants. I don’t have a Series 7 yet and my firm isn’t part of the NASD so they obviously can’t sponsor me. Is it easy to get one of these firms to sponsor you?

  12. 12 John

    I was wondering if anyone knows which trading floor is shown in the picture! It looks like an amazing place to work!

  13. 13 Babak

    it’s my home office. ;)

  14. 14 John

    I was wondering if anyone knows the average performance of first year proprietary traders in these trading firms. I hear Nexis Capital has a low turnover rate and was wondering how much the traders are making on average. (or range) Are there any websites with these statistics? Thanks.

  15. 15 Babak

    it is such a secretive and fragmented mkt that it is simply impossible to get such data. The best you can do is ask around and read objective reviews from people who have “been there and done that”.

  16. 16 Gil

    Nexis (and associated subs working on same trading floor, StarAlliance & Semper Fi) uses Blackwood. It is not their own. Nothing special about them either.

  17. 17 Ian

    Please Help …

    I am debating whether or not to accept a job offer from Nexis Capital. If anyone has any information on Nexis Capital or just in general about the roles of an equity trader, it would be much appreciated.


  18. 18 Babak

    I would suggest you go to, write up your offer and request feedback.

  19. 19 Ike

    I also got a job offer from nexis as an equity trader and I’m confused as to what exactly I’m getting into …am I basically being let on my own and working under a commission..? Please give me any further info if you can..

  20. 20 John

    Hey Ike and Ian. Looks like we are all in the same boat. Are you guys in the class starting in Aug? Maybe we are future coworkers lol but yea if anyone knows anything about Nexis and its culture please let us know!

  21. 21 Jerry

    I’ve been looking up this Nexis Capital and have seen their postings on career websites. To those who had an interview with them and/or got offers, can you give any specifics? What’s your outlook on them? Legit?

  22. 22 Babak

    I’ve posted a thread on ET. Hopefully, somone with info on Nexis will chip in.

  23. 23 John S.

    Im not in Nexis, but I trade on the same floor as them. They work under Dimension Brokerage. I *think* Nexis use to be called Prestige Capital.

    I remember that back in January, they had a sudden infux of new traders. Now, it looks like they only have half the traders that they did at their peak in January. Someone (also not in Nexis) told me that a few of Nexis’s sub-LCC’s left for another company. I’m not sure if that’s true or not because it looked to me as if the traders left gradually.

    John Croford:
    Are you saying that Nexis owns blackwood pro, and dimension? I generally dont like getting in the affairs of others but i’m rather curious about this.

    Can I ask about you rates, capital contribution, payout, etc?

  24. 24 Ian

    I accepted the offer from Nexis Capital. The capital provided by them is 50K and I decided to contribute 10% of that as my initial contribution. I believe this means my returns on trades will be 70%. This will still make it very difficult for those first three months when you generate no income.

    However I have requested the recruiter to send me the contract for this position and he refuses due to “confidentiality”reasons. I know other companies make sure that new employees are clear on all litigations of the position and the contract is one of the first things they mail out.

    What do you guys feel about this, I really want to review the contract before starting. How should I go about this.


  25. 25 John Hall

    I can understand why he wouldn’t want you to share the contract with anyone else (except a lawyer), but I wouldn’t agree to using someone else’s capital without a clear understanding of the risks and potential liabilities. Even if he only lets you look at it at their headquarters (very much a scare tactic), I would spend a great deal of time looking it over and making sure you understand it.

  26. 26 Babak

    personally, I wouldn’t get into anything unless I knew what it was beforehand. If they are citing confidentiality then tell them that you’re willing to sign a non-disclosure agreement to be ablel to read the contract. I can’t see them refusing that in good conscience.

    best of luck and let us know how it works out :)

  27. 27 Weston

    Has anyone ever heard of or worked for Title Trading? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated

  28. 28 robbie

    I am looking for a good spot to trade that doesnt require a series 7. Any thoughts on some places I should look into?

  29. 29 Keith

    I also got an offer from Nexis to start in August. I’ve been debating it. A 60% payout seems pretty decent, but I’m skeptical since I didn’t receive a contract or very much info on the company and the position.

  30. 30 trade2learn

    Nexis is just like any prop firm. If you can trade, great. If not, you would feel like crap after couple of months.

    Their checks come in on time- if you manage to make money that is.

    From my experience there, the success rate is about 5-10%. There’s about 2-3 good traders born out of a class of 20-25.

  31. 31 Will

    Thanks for the wonderful list!

  32. 32 pame

    Hi, I need to know more about Cornerstone Partners. Who is the Partner in this company and is the properitory company anyway related to Cornerstone Trading LLC ! Appreciate reply if anyone knows !

  33. 33 Charlie

    what is the firm that’s in the picture?

  34. 34 Ian

    Has anyone taken the series 7 exam or know someone who has taken it, if so can you give me some insight as to best ways to prepare.


  35. 35 Babak

    I have no idea but it looks like a fun place to work, doesn’t it?
    you wouldn’t believe the number of people who have contacted me asking the same question.

  36. 36 John Croford

    Haven’t checked the post in awhile and it seems like the Nexis comment was misunderstood. i have been to a number of different trading firms like nexis and their deal structure, training, support, technology, and management far exceeds the former firms i worked for. i refuse to mention the names of my former firms, but i will tell you that many companies give you no training and fuck you on the deals. the market is really tough right now and has been for about 8 months. Nexis gave me an opportunity because I showed ambition and passion for the markets and it has worked out well. Their payouts may be less than other companies, but the fees and costs to trade are also lower. One former company gave me a much higher payout, like 95%, but charged me a seat fee, and technology fee, and pass through fees, and SEC fees, and ticket costs. It was a crock of shit. Even when I made money gross, i never brought anything home because it was all goign back to the firm. At Nexis they focus on training you and making money with you. Their management is very open about everything and they do not lie about what to expect. Most traders don’t make any money when they start and it is competitive. the bottom line is that you have to be good in this business or you are done.

  37. 37 Lyn

    Hi, thanks a lot for the comprehensive list.

    I am very interested in remote trading and wonder whether it is possible to have more information in this area. So far Bright Trading is the only place I can find which offers such remote trading. Are there other options? I wish to trade index futures, and Bright Trading seems to do stocks only.

    And, can anyone please share their experiences with Bright Trading? Your comment will be very much appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance.

  38. 38 John Hall

    How much of these Proprietary Trading Firms focus on day trading?

  39. 39 Babak

    John, thanks for the feedback.

    Lyn, almost all of the firms now offer remote. That I know only a handful specialize in futures but their names escape me now. I’d go to elitetrader and do a search since this has been asked and answered many times.

    John, by their nature, all prop firms are day trading.

  40. 40 Chester

    When a firm says that after so many months you will receive a draw for perhaps $2000 a months from your account, what exactly is that implying? Basically I’m wondering if you have your account at perhaps $100,000 and in one month you increase it to $105,000. If you have a 100% payout ratio (for math’s sake) and you’re entitled to receiving $7000, does the account move down to $93,000? I’m just trying to familiarize myself with the idea of a draw and its drawbacks(pun intended).

  41. 41 Babak

    I’m not sure because I don’t know the contractual context. In a normal prop shop, you put some money down and you trade. Usually you can take money out, as long as you have made it. Or if you want to leave the firm (taking the deposit). If you have questions, the best source would be the prop firm you’re dealing with.

  42. 42 Cory H

    Those that are interested in remote trading and don’t actually have the experience and want to also learn some stratagies, I found a great company called NRT that gives you online training and allows you to trade from home. I think the company is a subsidiary of Nexis, the website is

  43. 43 Chester

    Do you trade for them now?

  44. 44 Lyn

    Can anyone please tell me the prop firms that trade futures? I am trying to find such info at ET, and so far have found very little. Thanks a lot.

  45. 45 Dan

    Does anyone know of any Washington DC based prop firms?

  46. 46 goindo

    To: Ian, Ike & John

    CC: Babak

    Regarding Nexis Capital…

    Hi there; I will be interviewing with Nexis Capital next week, and since you guys (Ian, Ike, John) have already gotten a job offer from them, I’d like to ask you guys (if you don’t mind) about the interview. i.e. what should I expect, what do they look for in me, etc. Or even what questions should I be asking them.

    Of course, my question goes to Babak as well. And.. actually, just about anyone who reads this, please help me out. Thanks!

    P.S. About me: a recent college grad.

  47. 47 Keith


    I have also accepted an offer from Nexis. Honestly just show that you have a general interest in trading and are fairly decent with numbers. I just graduated college in May and had my interview in January. I didn’t really talk as much about previous work experience as much as I talked about what I knew about the financial market and why that type of job interested me. I don’t know how many people they’ve already hired or how many more they’re hiring, but showing that you really want it is my best advice.

    I’m actually curious who of you guys out there are definetly starting August 6th?

  48. 48 Ian


    My interview was rather casual, my interviewer was there in a polo, jeans and baseball cap. During the interview he asked me questions which mainly showed my style of thinking and processing data. He also asked me a brain teaser and wanted me to walk him through the solution out loud. One advice is to display an entreprenurial spirit, as that is what this position demands.

    Not to deter anyone from the company, but the risks of the positions were just too great for me and I withdrew my acceptance to join Nexis in August.

    Best of luck.


  49. 49 Dean

    Just to clear up a few things about Nexis Capital, as many of the posts here are misleading (I work in the same office as they do).

    A) They do NOT own their own software
    B) They are NOT a broker-dealer
    C) They ARE a sub-LLC group of Dimension Capital
    D) They ARE in the process of leaving Dimension Capital
    E) Half of their traders have left in the past few months

    There is truly nothing special or ground-breaking about their strategy/training (actually, the reason that so many of their traders have left is because of NSYE Hybrid, a new rule that has made many traders leave the business in recent month’s altogether). To their credit, they just do a better job of marketing themselves than other people.

    To the unitiated poster who foolishly stated that he/she will receive $50,000 in capital and $5k of that will be contributed by the trader, lol, don’t think they are giving you a special deal because of your intellect: IT IS STANDARD PROCEDURE IN THE PROP WORLD. And by the way, they are not “putting up” the other $50k: once your $5k is lost/done, you will be asked to re-deposit additional risk capital and/or leave.

    Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions.


  50. 50 Babak

    thanks for the info. I was puzzled by all this hand wringing over interviews. Prop firms will take anyone with a pulse (and capital contribution).

  51. 51 Dean


    No problem. All someone really needs in the prop world is someone reputable to deal with and a good system.

  52. 52 Keith

    Any suggestions? And are there any places that might give some sort of a salary?

  53. 53 Babak

    afaik, the only prop shops that give you a salary are large banks and other financial institutions which have trading desks. They offer a salary plus bonuses based on performance. This is the original form of ‘prop’ but today’s prop firms are in essence super-charged brokers.

  54. 54 Chester

    Has anyone heard or worked for First New York Securities LLC? Seems as though you don’t have to put capital down and the traders get a salary.

  55. 55 Babak

    Chester, I think you have to be a firm member to trade the firm’s capital. And you become a member by capital contribution… unless I’m wrong. In any case I’ve added them to the list.

  56. 56 Brian

    I just found this blog.

    I received my offer to trade at Nexis and have decided to do it, I’ll be in the August 6 class and can’t wait to start.

  57. 57 David

    Does anyone here know how much Nexis charges for commission?

  58. 58 Ian

    From what I understood, comission is solely based on your initial contribution
    i.e contribute nothing, comission = 50%
    contribute 5K, comission = 60%
    contribute 10K, comission = 70%

    … and so on

    however I could be wrong, if anyone else has more precise answer please correct me.


  59. 59 Keith

    0 is 50%, 2500 is 60%, 5k is 70% and 10k is 80%

  60. 60 David

    I wasn’t talking about payout rate, I was talking about how much they charge you per share.

    That said, those payout rates dont seem very competetive. Im pretty sure Benchmarq has a 100% payout with 20:1 leverage. ie: you put up 5K they give you 100K buying power, with 100% payout.


  61. 61 john

    i wont be able to find the proprietary firm name G H Financials, could you pleaze upload the relevant informations regarding the same

  62. 62 Dean

    That is a total rape of a deal: 80% payout with $10k deposited? You are doing yourself a huge disservice in accepting such an uncompetitive deal. I guess Nexis is good at finding fools.

    Do yourself a favor and shop around. You can contact me if you have any questions.


  63. 63 Markus

    There is a better way than joining a prop firm:

    Go out and work for a while in job which interests you, save a grubstake, join one or more good trading rooms (e.g. for education. Then trade small size with a well known broker with decent commission and good technology. Trading is about patience and persistency.

  64. 64 John Croford

    There seems to be a lot confusion going back and forth about Nexis Capital. The biggest problem with blogs and message boards is that very little is true. Competitors can easily find these blogs and post non-sense.
    As I mentioned in my last post, I am a trader a Nexis and I know exactly what the real deal is with this company (the good and the bad).

    Nexis Capital is a strategic partner with the owners of Blackwood Technologies and Dimension Brokerage. In other words, Nexis is the parent trading firm, not a sub-group of Dimension Brokerage. Nexis is severing their relationship with the partners of Dimension and Blackwood for one reason and one reason only: Blackwood Pro Trading Platform. As a trader with Nexis, I have been frustrated with the quality of this platform and I can’t be happier that the partners of Nexis have decided to move on to bigger and better things. The platform is the only one reason why a few traders have left Nexis, but very few have. What Dean doesn’t know is that Nexis has already transitioned some traders over onto the new system in a new location, and it appears as if the trading floor got cut in half when it did not.

    Nexis is one of the only companies that offer positions with $0 down. If you do put down capital and go through the capital, Nexis will cover you 100% behind your capital. Dean is completely wrong about that!
    Babak seems to be running this blog and he wisely stated “All someone really needs in the prop world is someone reputable to deal with and a good system.” The only thing I think he forgot to add is training. Training is possibly the most important factor for success. A lot of firms don’t give a shit about their traders or training them. To make it in this industry you have to have the best training possible and that is what Nexis does best, hands down.

    Dean also mentioned that putting 10k down with an 80% payout is a rapping. Obviously noone read my last posting on June 5th. I was with another firm prior to being with Nexis and they could have given me a 140% payout, but it didn’t mean shit because I couldn’t make money with a company that doesn’t train.

  65. 65 Dean

    John, I know exactly where Nexis is going and the platform might be one of the issues at hand, but so is a lower rate and higher buying power. There are more forces at work here than just the platform.

    You obviously cannot read and comprehend correctly, so let us try to clarify a few things for you in plain English.

    A) “Nexis Capital is a strategic partner with the owners of Blackwood Technologies and Dimension Brokerage. In other words, Nexis is the parent trading firm, not a sub-group of Dimension Brokerage.” ————–> Every group within Dimension is a strategic partner (there are about a dozen of them). Nexis is not the parent trading firm: THEY ARE a sub-group of Dimension. Don’t think so? If Dimension goes down, so does Nexis and every other group that is affiliated with Dimension (Nexis has capital with Dimension. Nexis gets paid from Dimension). So your capital is bye-bye with Nexis if Dimension goes south.

    B) “Nexis is one of the only companies that offer positions with $0 down. If you do put down capital and go through the capital, Nexis will cover you 100% behind your capital.” —————–> Nexis is not the only one that offers this: go to Craigslist and you will see a ton of ads that offer no money down. Why would firms do this kind gesture and take on such financial risk? Because they can charge ridiculous rates (anywhere from 0.007 to 0.015 a share) and reap high-margin profits. The trader is led to believe he/she is getting a great deal, however, with such a high commission rate, 99% will not make a dime and just churn themselves, making the firm a ton of cash.

    C) “Babak seems to be running this blog and he wisely stated “All someone really needs in the prop world is someone reputable to deal with and a good system.” ———–> Check your sources: I was the one that wrote that post.

    Bottom line: what Nexis offers is standard fare in the prop world but people like yourself make it to be the steal of the century, making unsuspecting future traders delicious prey.


  66. 66 David

    John Croford:
    Since none of Nexis recruits here seems to know this, how much do you charge per share?

  67. 67 Chester

    Any remote prop firms that cater to Canadians, where a trader can start with 0 capital?

  68. 68 Mark

    John Croford:
    Since none of Nexis recruits here seems to know this, how much do you charge per share?

  69. 69 Keith

    Any input on SMB Capital?

  70. 70 Alfi

    hi guys
    do any of you have experience with prop. trading firms in the San Francisco Bay Area?
    Especially if you know of any that provide classes with proper training for their trainees?


  71. 71 G.A.

    John Croford:

    Im interested in trading with NExis, but currently I am trading with another one of dimensions llc’s. I know that there is a non-compete that prevents me from going to nexis right now, but i was wondering if you know when Nexis will begin hiring at there new offices.

  72. 72 Ben

    There’s a lot of fake info about nexxis in this blog. Let me break it down real simple for evryone that is about to fall into this scam:

    Out of 200 traders, there will be about 5 guys that can make decent money. Whatever payout % rate you have because of your contribution makes absolutely no difference at all because you’ll never really get paid…for 95% of the traders, the best scenario is to get draws of 2000 against their accounts…and it is rare that they receive 2000 every month…I would say your lucky if you make $8k the first year. It doesn’t matter if your payout is 80%, or 70% or 50%, because the rates they charge you are so high that you will owe them money even if you made money gross. You can gross 10k per month and they will tell you that you lost them money because of the transaction fees…before you know it you will owe them 40k!! They will not charge you this money if you leave…this is just an excuse so they can take all the money you make and NOT pay you!! You will spend years trying to make back the money before you can get your account back to zero and start making money. Oh, and say goodbye to your capital contribution because you’ll NEVER see it again. I put 2500 down and never saw it again, just like the other 16 guys that put down money when they started with me. Don’t waste your time…if you still want to do this, then start with zero contribution…you’ll have the same payout anyway!!! The last thing is that almost evryone leaves or gets fired.

  73. 73 David Legg

    Most of the people that goes to those prop firms are trying to make a quick buck. By Day Trading or short term swing trading. Most of the traders that trade at those firms “aren’t” exactly quailified traders aka they wouldn’t get a job at Morgan Stanley or JP Morgan for Equity Trader position or Analyst.

    If trading at one of these firms, for starting off use strategies such as CAPM, biggest thing is control risk to return. (Play it safe) And if you just trade without a valuation system. Then use strategies such as 2% cut loss with Puts as insurance and so forth.

  74. 74 Alfi

    I agree….do NOT put down any capital or initial contribution!!!! because you wont see it again! you cant expect to make any money at the beginning anyway as its normal to lose money in the 1st year or so. and lower payout with no contribution? well i wouldnt worry about it because there wont be any payout anyway if you are losing money. If you join them with no money contribution, all you have to lose is your time which is still better than losing time AND your money. :-) )

  75. 75 Ben

    If you have an education, I would stay away from these day trading firms…truth is, you might learn some exciting things but you will not get any money out of it and you will waste valuable time. If you are trying t be an analyst, or a real trader, this experience will not be very useful at all. As I said before, if you want to give it a try, then start with NO MONEY AT ALL!!! Trust me, I saw many new classes start at nexxisss and 95% of the guys were gone after a while….even the guys that were doing really well at the beginning. After all this time, I am pretty amazed that this business, and/or the things that the owners do are legal at all!! They finance their business by screwing so many people…mostly young guys. Every 3 to 6 months, they will bring a class of 20 - 40 people, and tell them the same fake story so that most of them put down contributions. Just figure it out…say 70% of the guys make a contribution…multiply and you’ll get a decent amount of money that none of the guys will see again!!! And if someone is absolutely excellent, he will get paid with his own money. Why do traders stay more than they should you may ask…well, because promises are made and traders try to forecast the future and don’t really care if they don’t make money at the start because they think they’ll make a lot later. Too bad that everyone realizes a little too late that this is not going to happen. I write all this because it is really unfair and sadistic that these people make all this free money like that…making people put down contributions that they will never give back…Ridiculous!!! If you know people that want to start there, spread the word or at least warn them. Trust me, I saw more than 100 guys get kicked out like dogs with no money…and a lot of them were doing good and making money for the firm!!!! I wasted alot of time and lost 2500…lucky it was only 2500 compared to others…and I was a pretty consistent trader with very little loses…it doesn’t matter if you gross alot in your account, because you will always owe them money…try getting charged $10 per thousand shares when they don’t pay anything…of course, they have to pay the rent, but for that they can use the poor kids’ contributions.

  76. 76 Gordon

    Does anyone know of more firms that are similar to Getco and Allston? In particular, what are more firms that use their own software and act more as market-makers versus prop trading firms?

  77. 77 digthis

    worked @ Nexis for almost a year, and what Dean and Ben say is true….Croford is misleading you and himself if his claims are that what Nexis does is superior to anyone else in the Prop arena….I watched daily as seasoned traders would put up 1000-2000 dollar days, only to realize later that these same people had either a) never seen a single dime due to transaction costs and ludicrous per share fees, or b) had run up such ridiculous debt that would require 3 years of 1-2k days just to get to zero….it’s a zero sum game with these guys and most of the ones out there just like them….the only difference is that the owner is as disgusting and shady as they come, and good at fooling those who come into his office that he’s offering you sunshine in a box for nothing. just take a look at his professional career (failed real estate, failed other businesses, etc.)….

  78. 78 Chester

    There hasn’t been any feedback on the new class at Nexis and I know they started already as well as had plans to be merging and moving. Anyone?

  79. 79 Alfi

    yeah it would be interesting to hear about their experiences from the class that started in August.

  80. 80 Alfi

    well most of the people in the current class are probably frustruated with trading and losing money and therefore are not willing to share that with us..i guess..:-))

  81. 81 trade2learn

    I worked for Nexis for over a year. I can’t speak for independent traders that use them as a broker but I can speak as one of the “graduate” of their training class.

    I can verify what Ben and Dean said. I saw traders come and go. Even the good one left after a while.

    To be fair to Nexis, if you are a good trader, you can make money- the fee is roughly $7/1000 shares - thats after all the SEC fees. The success rate is about 1-2 out of a class of 20. Even you are a successful trader, chances are the money isn’t as good as you think it is.

    If you have a decent education, go to an i bank and get an internship. Paid or unpaid, its better than a career at daytrading.

  82. 82 kw

    I have not dealt with Nexis so I will not comment on them, but on prop trading in general. I traded prop for a year before leaving to trade futures and I know several people that are quite successful using prop firms. But there are several misunderstandings that many new traders have, especially when they find out about prop trading from a job posting website.

    First of all, the firms that recruit off or whatever are NOT true prop in the original sense of the word, i.e. Goldman Sachs/Morgan Stanley etc. Those firms, who generally only recruit ivy league blue blood types will pay salary and bonus, and the competition for those “jobs” is extremely intense. The prop firms we are discussing are not jobs at all, because you are not being hired to trade. Rather, you are risking your own money (when you put up captial) or in the case of no contribution the company is only risking the amount of commissions you will generate against any profits you may make up to whatever their internal cutoff point is where they “fire” you. If they offer a “draw”, that is the same as in a sales job where you are receiving money that you have yet to earn. Any profits you make above commissions will be used to pay off the draw before you get any of it.

    Realize that most people will not make any money trading…ever. Those that do, usually have a learning curve that can last more than a year (in my case it was multiple years…yes, I am stubborn). It is almost impossible to make enough as a new trader to cover commissions and fees, no matter what the training program is like. There are no magic bullets, no secret systems…in the end its all about you and how disciplined you are.

    Prop firms make their money off of traders making trades. To them your profitability is secondary because there is always another dreamer waiting for your chair. They clear trades for less than they charge you for them and the difference is where their income is from. If you happen to make a lot of money and they get 10 or 20% of that, then its just gravy for them…that is why so many offer 100% payout, they know that there is likely to be no payout at all.

    Someone asked why there aren’t many futures prop firms. The reason is that the main benefit of prop trading is the large amount of leverage you get for your small deposit. This allows undersapitalized traders the ability to bypass the daytrader rule and start on a shoestring. Futures are already highly leveraged and so there is not the same benefit to sell to traders. If there were a way to make money doing it then you can count on the fact that they would be all over the place. There are a few and they tend to appeal to very large volume traders, but I have no experience with them.

    This turned out to be longer than I intended but I see these questions come up a lot on various forums and I hate to see unsuspecting people get their dreams shattered because they didn’t realize what they were getting into. I don’t mean this as a slap on prop firms, because they can be a useful tool if you are prepared when you start. The leverage is great if you know what you are doing. The problem is that the leverage usually appeals to people with little money and so they have no staying power to survive the learning curve. My recommendation is to not trade prop (or any highly leveraged trading) until you have enough money put aside to live on for at LEAST a year, not including your trading capital. Otherwise there is zero chance of your survivability. My humble recommendation (from experience) is to get a regular job that you can spend a couple years at and save save save until you have the capital to survive the inevitable drought. I know it sucks to hear that but I wish someone had told me that when I started.

    I have respected Babak for a long time from another forum so I thought I would trrow my 2c in here. Hope it helps someone.

    Good trading everyone.

  83. 83 Mike

    Hello Guys:

    I accepted a job offer with Star Alliance Capital, They are working under Dimension Cap, I am Trading there for almost 3 weeks .After two weeks of Extensive training , i started to trade Live and so far the first week , I made only $ 500.00 Net, after comm.

    My mentors making acouple thousand dollars a day, and so far no matter what i do i cant make more than $ 100 to $ 110.00 a day .I have asked them to let me to trade more shares ( currently i have a limit of 300 share 3 positions) but so far they are not allowing me to trade more.

    Just wondering if you guys have any advide for me to help me to make more money with my current position size.

  84. 84 Babak

    Kirk, thanks for that very honest and informative message.

    Mike, be patient. A week is too short. Keep up a consistent performance, then ask for more flexibility and lower commissions.

  85. 85 Mike


    Thank You so much for your advice, You are right,I have to be paitient and take it easy .

    As one of my mentor told me before, lots of people loose their money and therfore dont have chance to be in the market in order to pass the learning curve.

    Babak , Are you a trader?

  86. 86 erik

    Does any of you guys know a good Prop Firm in Toronto? Thanks

  87. 87 HP

    I am looking for a prop firm in Washington DC or the surrounding area of Virgina and Maryland. Can someone let me know. Thanks

  88. 88 Piers

    Hi Guys,

    I’m trading out of a prop arcade in London but looking for a move to Asia. Anyone have any names of prop firms out in Singapore or Tokyo? Have a few names to chase and trying to get infro from SGX and TIFFE, but any contacts/names of fimrs out there would be appreciated… Anyone got any info?


  89. 89 Brook Taylor

    Has anyone paid for training from Velez Capital and or trade through them? What has been your experience? Did you feel the training is worth the price i.e. 7 grand. Are there firms that don’t charge for training? What other firms give you $50k to start trading? Thank you. Brook

  90. 90 kw


    $7k for training? You would be better served applying that money to the market losses you will have in the beginning.

    I am not against educating yourself, but something newbies need to know is that this industry is FULL of scam artists, and the way you know they are trying to cheat you is if their mouth is moving. The truth is that to make money in the market you have to have an edge, that is, a statistically significant positive return that beats random coin flipping. If these “educators” had this then they would be trading not teaching, plain and simple. If they tell you otherwise, like “I do it to give back” or “My method is not diluted by teaching it to others” then just remember, their mouth is moving… Edges are too hard to come by to publish and even if they did, the fact that many others would be using the edge would in itself, kill the edge. And I am being generous in assuming they had an edge to sell to begin with…most of these training courses are absolutely worthless crap from the start.

    You will have to develop your own edge, and there are no shortcuts. You have to master your own psychology (this is the step most people never get through) and spend a lot of time in the market. Those are two things you won’t get from a $7k seminar. All you need is in a few books you can get at the library and yourself.

    As for Velez, a good friend of mine had some proprietary work “taken” from him by these guys and then claimed as their own, so that tells me all I need to know about him. But my warning applies to all vendors. There are very very very very very (did I mention very?) few that are worth even reading the promotional brochure.

    Its a jungle out there, and there are a lot of big cats eyeballing you.

  91. 91 David

    Question guys -

    i just interviewed at a prop options trading company. they grilled me with logic questions - and quite frankly - i was lost.

    how much do these questions determine how good you will be in trading?


  92. 92 Babak

    Piers, a lot of European and US prop shops have branches in Asia. Try the larger ones in the listing (above). At the moment I don’t know of a reputable firm in Asia but if I hear anything I’ll let you know.

    Brook, I’d stay away from Velez, prop firm or training. I haven’t heard good things.

    David, there is no definite determinant of trading prowess other than a track record. No question, interview or experiment short of trading itself can show that you can make money. Interviews are a game that you have to play to join the game in prop shops. Some are hard and others easy. If you don’t get into one, try another.

  93. 93 David

    Babak -

    in addition to your reply of trading prowess - if one trips up on logic questions in an interview…such as myself(bummer), do you think this is a good indicator whether one will be successful in the industry?


  94. 94 Rob


    Looking to start in Europe, could you inform me about a firm in London ?


  95. 95 joel goodsen

    Anyone heard of Maverick Trading out of Cicago ?

    I have a friend who’s college roomate supposedly runs it and is trying to sign me up as aprop trader.

    Just wondering if they are legit.

  96. 96 Piers

    Rob, depends on what you’re looking for I guess. Are you already trading at a prop house out in the States? What products are you looking to trade? Are you looking for graduate traineeships or wanting to back yourself?

    Give me some more info and I can be a bit more specific.


  97. 97 Derek

    Anyone heard of SMW trading? I’m just out of college and interested in learning more about how the trading industry works. I received a call from SMW today and they want to interview me. I honestly have no idea what to expect or the questions I should be asking. Thanks for the help.

  98. 98 joel goodsen

    Ok so I WANT to risk my $5-10K to get 20:1 leverage - where do I go to do this without the silly fake “interview” ?

    I am 41 and have been trading since I was 18 - have gained and lost lots of money- I understand the risks, blah, blah, etc.

    I just want the leverage and good market access and software platform and to be left alone to lose my money (or maybe make some ???).

    Oh, and no ridiculous fees….

    So where is the best place ?

    Do I need to go along with their “interview” ?

  99. 99 Babak

    re mavrick (aka great point capital) I found this on

  100. 100 joel goodsen

    Thanks Babak-

    Lots of good info at that link but unfortunately lots of testimony on both sides so not conclusive.

    I did find out that they are now called Tower Hill if anyone else is following this thread.

  101. 101 Rob

    Thanks Piers.

    I am trading Nasdaq basket stocks with my automated program and I am looking for a shop with remote access with API for excel and leverage.

  102. 102 Steve

    anybody hear of ptgcapital? and if so, how is it?

  103. 103 PADRON

    I am exploring the career as a prop trader after working at morgan stanley because I feel like I would be making more money than I do now if just put my own capital into the market the way i did for my clients. I have 500K to put down as collateral. Someone give me some tips please

  104. 104 David Meyerson

    Babak -

    i cant get a phone # for Jump trading off their website…any way you can find it or recommend a resource guide?


  105. 105 Babak

    it is your lucky day:
    phone: 312.930.9603 fax: 312.930.9670

  106. 106 Babak

    were you trading at MS or managing client money? short term trading is a different beast altogether. The advantage to prop trading is you only need a small fraction of your capital to trade and there are shops which would let you take positions overnight or longer. That way you can have the buying power and still have your capital working on another venture or investment.

  107. 107 Edwin

    According to my knowledge there are 2 trading firms who are trading remotely from India. They are Swift trade and Capstone. Can anyone suggest any more firms trading US Market from India.

  108. 108 PADRON


    I was a managing clients at Morgan. I had full discretion over all trading decisions so i feel like i have experience with trading but not enough to exactly jump into a prop shop and start using leverage. I want to find a prop shop that would be a good place for to learn how to be an equity trader. Can you trade options at these prop shops? any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

  109. 109 Piers


    Most of the firms over here trade Futures rather than cash equities, but I know that Argo Traders focus on this area exclusively. Not sure on their setup but here is their website address.

    And this is a list of prop arcades from Trade2Win.

    Hope this helps.

  110. 110 Stephen

    To Padron …. email me, would like to talk lakekoho at hotmail.

    Also, anyone know how a Canadian can use a US prop firm without S 7?

    I’m an excellent trader (yes, and have been humbled) but need a prop trading opportunity with a US firm or as an alternative, a partnership with a US citizen and I teach him/her ….



  111. 111 Babak

    if you’re Canadian, you don’t need to get your S7 to trade prop with a US firm. That’s the law. Just contact the prop firm you want to work with and do your due diligence.

  112. 112 Joe

    People, I have been reading you thread and let me say it is a great one. I have traded with various firms in Chicago and decided to go remote. I have been doing this for the past 3 years. It is great having no desk fee and having the freedom to do what you want when you want.

    I have traded remotely with different firms, but have finally got the firm that suits my needs. My two biggest needs are cheap commissions and execution time. This firm gave me the cheapest commission charges I have ever incurred and executions are executed the second I hit the enter key.

    For non experienced traders they offer a virtual chat room. The owners gave me a free 2 day pass to check it out. If I was first breaking into the industry this would be something I would recommend.

    I started off at $.005/share…..they have really good break points
    20-1 leveraging
    and only a minimum of a $5000 deposit.

    I remember how hard of a time I had breaking into the trading industry. It was hard sorting through peoples BS and trying to find honest people. I hope I can help people out with any questions they have.

    If you have any questions feel free to email at

  113. 113 Stephen

    Thanks for your information Joe. I am a Canadian who has just been offered a prop trading opportunity with a Canadian firm. I never knew these opportunities existed until offered. I signed the paperwork and will probably be funded sometime this week or next. I am in Florida for the winter so wish me luck. As a former CEO who suffered a nice big heart attack, my new quest has me a tad worried with the uncertainty, but I think I can do it. My children and a better work environment propel me to do this … and of course a passion for the markets.

    So would you be prepared to mentor me as I progress, if needed? I think my trading style is good but this is where the rubber hits the pavement. If I fail, I might impose on you and come see how you do it. If you are interested in my technique I am of course prepared to share but I send this letter as an opener.

    I have placed $20,000 down and they are giving me 10 X margin. They get net 20%. Trades are virtually free because I get a $.002/share for providing liquidity (this is what I get charged as well) so I should be able to trade for free. The platform is new to me and I have been learning it the last week. It seems sound but I have three monitors and am unable to sort a layout.

    Would you be prepared to mentor me as I chug along?


  114. 114 Joe


    I have no problem lending you any expertise or help I can provide. Congratulations on your trading account! I understand your reasoning for getting into trading. If done successfully this will give you some financial freedom and more spare time to spend with your loved ones. My first recommendation is to take things slowly for the first couple of months.

    I was wondering if you have any monthly fees? What are they providing you in order to keep 20% of your profits? How do they structure your pay-out? If I am taking in everything correctly….you are a remote trader, .002/share, 80% pay-out, and 10-1 leveraging?

    I hope that this will be a successful endeavor for yourself. If you need any help or have any questions feel free to ask.

    Do you have a AIM, Yahoo screen name? I am on it all day during trading hours and have no problem shooting around ideas.


    Joe Foxx

  115. 115 Dan

    Hi Joe,
    I just read your posting on finding a good prop firm that you’ve been with for three years. I’ve been trading full time for two years and have lost alot of money. Over the last three months I have finally become profitable, ie consistent profits almost everyday. I feel like this has been a long painful education.

    Needless to say my account has been dessimated. Though profitable, I’m just barely paying all my bills and staying above the 25K daytrading limit. Therefore I’ve been looking at prop firms. The industry seems very “shady” and I don’t have alot of trust in what I’ve seen so far. I’m looking for a trustworthy firm with low fees. Some training would be useful but I’m doing pretty good already. Any recommendation would be highly appreciated. Please write me at


  116. 116 Stephen


    You are correct in your assessment on fees, etc. In terms of what my prop firm is providing, I get 10X margin as opposed to the standard of 3X (that is the norm for retail accounts in Canada). Contrary to what is said on this page, US brokerage firms will not open accounts for Canadians. It is a regulatory issue that contravenes Cdn regulations, not American ones. I’ve heard the same story from three large US brokers and would like anyone on this page to prove me wrong as it would open an option for me.

    I’d like to inform you of my strategy for your scrutiny but not here as it is too public. I’d also be very interested in your strategy. I’d like you to attack my method and have some questions on Level II and on ECN routing.

    I am sailenya at yahoo and will keep it open. I do not have an email account with yahoo but will give you either a gmail or hotmail address where we can communicate.

    Thanks for your help. I’m at a critical stage of trading and need someone to watch over my shoulder and to kick my butt if needed, as I will one day kick the butt of another!


    (ps. I trade the XLF, the QQQQ, the SMH and the SPY. You might be interested how I do it!)

  117. 117 Babak

    prop firms do not have the same relationship with you as a trader that say, Ameritrade would with you as a retail trader. The legal framework is different, so yes a Canadian can trade prop with a US firm.

    But I’d be really careful about it. You have to do a lot of due diligence because unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous people and firms out there. Be careful, don’t take anything anyone, including me, says. Check it for yourself. Then double check it.

  118. 118 Len

    I am looking to join a reputable prop trading firm in San Francisco area. I have been trading my own account with Fidelity for 10 yrs, but now I want to join a firm and trade the firm’s money. Can anybody give me any names? I wouls greatly appreciate it.

  119. 119 Egarim


    I just interviewed with Nexis Capital. Although, I didn’t get the job offer just yet, I’m pretty sure I will get one as all the top managers said I was exactly what they were looking for. Anyways, the information I have gathered so far is:
    First 6months is training.
    .006/share commission.
    Capital Contribution:
    0 - 50% profits
    2.5k - 60%
    5k - 70%
    10k - 80%
    As long as I stay past 6months, I will still get my 10k back. If I were to leave before then, then they would subtract my losses from the 10k and give me back the rest.

    Some background on me. I will be graduating May 2008 from NYU with a GPA close to 3.9. I am econ major with math/physics minor. I have played poker professionally for the past year and paid my way through college. I think I can live comfortably for the next year with no income (although I would prefer making lots of money as soon as possible).

    What do others think of this deal? Is this a good deal? The people I met there seemed nice and honest. Their training program seemed really good compared to other prop firms. The commission seems a bit high though. It’s been really tough trying to figure out which firms are good/bad. Every firm I’ve visited has tried really hard to sell themselves to me. Differentiating between the BS and real stuff has been difficult. I’d appreciate any input. Thanks!

  120. 120 Gram Wellington


    The post listed above you guys arima capital. They payout 100% profits. I use to trade with them remotely from my home office. They do not do splits like most of the prop firms out there. I only had to put up 2,500 to get 10:1 intraday leverage and 4:1 overnight, but most traders put up 5k to start. If you have your 7,63 licenses of course you can get much more leverage. I wanted to enroll in their training course when I use to trade with them but I don’t live near them so I opened a remote account and communicated with one of their experienced traders by skype. They use the Annvil software which I found to be the best so far. You can probably get a remote rate through them around 0.0035 depending how much volume you do per month.


    You might want to watch out for those commision splits and having your funds locked up in the company, speak with other traders, you might want to reconsider your options, rate is extremely high as well.

  121. 121 David

    Babak -

    Can you provide a list of boutique investment banks in nyc? perhaps 5-10? Trying to get onto a trade desk in a junior role.

    what are your thoughts working on the amex floor as a specialist? a dying breed?

  122. 122 Dpac

    hello Edwin,
    prop trading firm called FuturesFirst is operating 6 offices out of Inida. They mainly trade (short term) Interest rate and commodity futures. You need not deposit any money with them to trade. In turn they pay you a fixed salary for working with them and a good % of the profits, as commission, you make! and has a VERY GOOD maket share in LIFFE, EUREX, ICE, BRENT and CME.

  123. 123 Josh

    Looking for a good Chicago prop firm willing to hire a high school graduate? ( Low commission )

  124. 124 Babak

    David, my advice would be to try foreign banks that are either trying to get a toehold or are already established with a small base. AMEX is another way to go, even if you don’t make it a career, it can be a great training ground for better and bigger things.

  125. 125 MOS

    Hello! We need help!!!!!!!!!!
    Our brocker Genesis gave us the recalculation today. They said its from INET ECN “Currently some backcharges were posted to your account, from INET ECN reroute fees, which lowered your equity ” its the recalculation of routing fees from 1 may to 4 december 2007!!!!! Its too big and we thing that Genesis are trying to cheat us. We have been charged 0.0006 per share. Big money.
    We havent heard about that. Have somebody recieved the same recalculation?How can we investigate is this data true?

  126. 126 Ben

    Egarim, I’m going to do a big favor for you. Go read the comments starting August in this blog…just scroll up and read. You are about to get robbed big time by nexxxxxxxis!!! Give them your money and after 6 months you’ll get it back…hahahha…no chance in hell that you’ll see that money again…no way!!! Don’t worry, by the end of the 6 months they will tell you that you owe them 30k!!!! Even if you make money and are a good trader, you’ll end up losing net because of the transaction fees. Trust me, scroll up and start reading the August comments…you have a nice education…save it for something better!!

  127. 127 Stephen

    Where did Joe go? Haven’t seen you pop up on chat …. would ike to accept the mentoring offer.

    Anyone heard of Liquid Trading? Not much on the web. 100% payouts but they didn’t ask for any signed contracts other than the usual NYSE, NASDAQ agreements, which has me concerned. Any comments?

    Laslty, I am taking it the only reason prop firms exist is due to traders not wantong to place much up front. Is the whole objective here nothing more than building an account so that you can jump into a retail account? I can’t see much more ….

  128. 128 McNuggets

    Anyone hear of a Why aren’t they on the list? They seem to be funded largely with assets overseas, offer min 2k, trade remotely with 100 percent payout monthly. I don’t see all the risk as mentioned in the previous comments. Can trade capital without series 7, at location or remotely. Why would anyone pay a larger sum, if they have 30k, then open a retail amtd account. Learn from making errors, and just because they offer 80k to 150k of trading power, don’t do anything your not totally comfortable to do, as no training in the world, or education, could prepare you 100 percent for a trading career. It’s all instinct, and guts. You either have it, or don’t.

  129. 129 Stephen

    I concur with McNuggets guy!
    Re the education comment, John Maynard Keynes said it best:
    “Successful investing is anticipating the anticipations of others”.
    That is guts not school.
    I knew RIMM would perform well and knew even if they didn’t they would cite ipportunities in South America and Asia. It was all there for the taking …. and I took. I have two degrees after my name but read Rich Man Poor Man to give you a sense (cents) of what they are worth on the market !!!!

  130. 130 Alfi

    hey stephen
    just a remark
    its like you want to tell us that you are able to predict the future? :-) )
    if thats the case, you must be already a millionair.

    there is no way, one of you KNOWS and KNEW where a stock will be in the future. ok ok..maybe some of the stocks you looked at, did go higher..some of them didnt….

    However I dont think you can win in this game if you have a FEELING where the stock will be. because there is just no freaking way somebody knows that. and if somebody states so, they are just full of crap.

    just a remark…sorry..:-))

  131. 131 Saurabh

    I,m Saurabh from India. Interested in Trading jobs. Read about firms like Swift Trade,Capstone and futured first in india. I just applied at Capstone but could not find where to apply to swift trade. Could anyone help me in applying there (in india). Also if anyone could help me in finding more trading firms in india as the number of firms in india is limited. As compared to US where there are so many options. Do let me know .


  132. 132 Babak

    Stephen, there are many other advantages to prop firms: access to mentorship, exclusive data and networks, incredibly low commissions, etc… The right prop shop offers much more.

    McNuggets, I think you mean .net and the reason they aren’t on the list is because I had never heard of them until now. But are they really a prop firm or some other form of animal? I’ll read about them more and if they qualify add them to the list. Thanks.

    Saurabh, go to Swift Trade’s website and then from there the international section.

  133. 133 Ronnie

    Im currently Trading at a prop firm in London, but wanting to moving to the west cost of the US can anyone give me info on M&N trading out of Newport beach or any other prop houses.

  134. 134 Babak

    Ron, thanks for the (self)-plug lol
    When your site is up, send me a short note and I’ll add you to the list
    Cheers and have a safe and merry new year :-)

  135. 135 Damian

    Are there any prop firms which specialize in automated strategies for the futures market? I’m a system developer, currently tracking my systems on StrategyRunner. Would like to trade my strategies for a firm if possible.
    Thanks for the input!

  136. 136 Joe

    Just wanted to wish everybody a happy new year. Hopefully everbodys 08 will be even better than 07. Best of luck on all investments.

  137. 137 Vik

    I just got an offer from Lynx capital to become a trader. Does anyone know anything about this firm?

  138. 138 kw


    What city is the firm in? I traded with Lynx in San Diego a few years back, but since then they changed names a couple of times (I am not with them at this time, so I am not sure what they are called now). At the time, Lynx was a sub-LLC of Assent I believe and had a local ownership group. Those guys were pretty cool and I was treated very fairly.

    This goes for any prop firm office: I think your experience will depend on the local principals and how they run the business. The best thing to do is try and contact a couple of their traders away from the office so you can get as honest an opinion as possible. If you have met any during the interview process offer to buy them lunch so you can chat for a few minutes. Most traders I know won’t turn down free food. :)

  139. 139 gzdimension

    Entry level and Senior Equity Traders Wanted

    Dimension Capital Partners is a full service trading firm based in New York City with access to over $4.5 billion in allocated capital, a worldwide of 600 traders, specializing in providing trading services to professional traders. We are focused on utilizing our sophisticated technology to satisfy the demands and requirements of active traders worldwide. Our goal is to empower our traders with the most advanced trading technologies providing high-speed executions and unparalleled custom support so they can concentrate on the markets and their trading.

    Our desk has recently expanded and we are looking to build a new team. Thus, we are adding Junior Traders and Experienced Traders to the team. We will consider qualified inexperienced applicants as well.

    Capital Markets – Equity Proprietary Trader

    The Equity Trader is an expert in day trading US Equities. The incumbent may be responsible for the management and utilization of significant resources in a discrete part of the business and accountable for the overall performance of their accounts, in particular revenue generation and management of risk profile.

    Primary Duties and Responsibilities:
    • Responsible and accountable for managing own trading books with regards to positions, mark-to-market, P&L and risk.
    • Collaborate with senior traders in developing trading strategies and recommendations
    • Conduct proprietary research/analysis in search of competitive edge in stock-picking

    Strong quantitative and analytical abilities, extraordinary communication, patience, discipline, team spirit, and an exceptional sensitivity to detail are essential. Direct prior experience is not required but some demonstrated interest in and exposure to financial markets is a decided advantage.

    Specific Information for Entry Level / Internship – Junior Trader:

    • Training - Dimension Capital Partners offers a 6 months training and is looking to train motivated individuals to trade the firm’s strategy.
    • Visa - Dimension Capital Partners does sponsor individuals for the purpose of obtaining a visa, and accepts visa transfers
    • Health Insurance - Dimension Capital Partners offers its traders the ability to opt into several premier health plans (Oxford).
    • NASD (series 7) - Not necessary for proprietary trading, BUT we can sponsor for it
    • Compensation - Negotiable

    Contact Us:

    Qualified candidates are encouraged to forward a resume and cover letter at “ref. traderdeskGZF” – no phone calls please.

    Specific Information for Experienced and Remote Trader:

    • The Benefits of Cross-Margining and Master Accounts:
    Dimension Capital Partners allows for multiple accounts to be cross margined as well as trading from a master account where the trades are allocated to individual accounts at the end of the day.

    • Access/remote to Blackwood PRO trading software:
    Dimension Capital Partners provides traders with the exclusive use of the Blackwood PRO trading software which serves the professional trader with not only real-time quotes, but also lightning fast order entry and trade executions. This includes direct access to the NYSE, NASDAQ, and all ECN’s electronically over the internet from the comfort of your home or office. Since this is our own proprietary trading platform we do not need to rent from 3rd party vendors. This also allows us to provide direct technical support, minimize down time, and continually upgrade our Blackwood PRO software to achieve the best performance and functionality. Furthermore, Blackwood PRO is completely customizable to suit all your trading needs.

    • Industry Low Commissions.
    Since trading fees are a huge part of how much you can net, we will beat or match your current substantiated rate. Dimension Capital Partners offers: Low Commissions - No ticket charges - No minimum charge per executed order - No charge for unexecuted or cancelled orders - No minimum volume trading requirements - Full pass through of ECN rebates available

    • Unparalleled Management and Customer Service.
    Dimension Capital Partners is composed of competent multi-lingual Ivy League educated staff that has been successfully trading for more than a decade. As active traders, we understand the importance of having competent live customer service at all hours of the day, including weekends.

    • Commissions:
    At Dimension Capital Partners we offer experienced traders the opportunities to trade directly with equity markets from the comfort of a remote location of your choice. We do not charge a monthly desk or trading platform fee. We also offer full pass through of ECN rebates to every trader. Our commission levels are highly competitive and go as low as .002 per share.

    Professional Intraday (up to 100 to 1) & Overnight Buying Power (4 to 1)

    • Visa - Dimension Capital Partners does sponsor individuals for the purpose of obtaining a visa, and accepts visa transfers
    • Health Insurance - Dimension Capital Partners offers its traders the ability to opt into several premier health plans (Oxford).
    • NASD (series 7) - Not necessary for proprietary trading, BUT we can sponsor for it
    • Compensation - Negotiable

    Contact Us:

    To join our desk, open an account or learn more about our services please contact a principal directly at 1 212 531 8579 (Ask for Greg) or “ref. traderdeskGZF”

  140. 140 mark h.

    Great thread going on here.

    Wondering if anyone knows of any good prop. shops in Asia, specifically Hong Kong. I have been offered a few jobs with a few different shops in the US and Canada, but for family reasons, and wanting to be closer to the asian economy, I think Hong Kong could be a decent place to start up.

    Thank you for any sort of tips or comments.

  141. 141 Whathell

    anyone heard of Propex in Australia?

  142. 142 paul

    Hi everyone looking for proprietry trading companies on the west coast of America can anyone recommend any?


  143. 143 Joe

    Cornerstone Partners website

  144. 144 Babak

    Thanks Joe - added.

  145. 145 joel

    Has anyone heard of DV trading out of Toronto, or Chicago?

  146. 146 Gram Wellington

    Profiting from Market-Leading Innovation

    Arima Capital is a leading proprietary electronic trading firm offering innovative solutions for the professional active trader. Arima traders may trade remotely from anywhere in the world or on-premise in one of the firm’s fully equipped, professional trading floors, utilizing our various high-end Anvil platform.

    Arima Capital, the choice for the trading professional. We offer access to all US Stock and Option Markets.* Arima Capital was created by traders for traders. Arima Capital offers the latest technology and on-going support.

    Arima Capital specializes in catering to remote traders as well as groups. Our software platform is designed for optimal trading in our offices or remotely. Due to our large customer base, we are able to pass savings on to our traders with low ticket and execution charges

    Arima Capital is seeking experienced professional independent stock traders for its new fully equipped, professional trading floor, located in New York City or to trade remotely. Positions are available for groups, experienced professionals, and newcomers.

    Arima Capital offers state-of-the-art proprietary software and trading tools, competitive commissions and payouts, automated programs, and remote trading. Arima Capital provides solutions to groups, hedge funds, and new startup trading firms, professionals, and newcomers. For more information e-mail

    Why Remote? We consider remote trading to be whenever an Arima Trader trades outside of a Arima Capital office more then they trade inside a Arima office. This can be in your home, in your private office, on the beach with your wireless notebook, the possibilities are endless. Arima Capital allows an individual to trade from a location that is accessible to him or herself.


  147. 147 daniel

    thanks for this post, this was very useful.

    but I don’t know if you notice that about 10% of the above links do not work anymore. and they were posted only 9 months ago…

    being a remote foreign trader I’m becoming very skeptical to send my money to this kind of firms. If I could met them, well… it would be different. But for many of this links it seems to me it’s like sending money to a blog owner… I don’t know…

  148. 148 Ed

    The firm in the picture is taken when it was Refco at the 155 Bishopgate, City of London floor, I’m in it. The firm has cut back to 100 traders now from the 300 in the picture since the takeover, holds some very good traders.

    Propex is run by an old trading Manager from MacFutures/RefcoTradingServices/MarexTrading called Matt O’Brien he was a good manager here so should have exported a decent set up.

  149. 149 Nick Johnson

    I also just recieved an interview from T3 Trading (Formally Nexis Capital) I noticed that a few people took a job with them, since they merged and are now T3–any change in company culture? I”m considering working for them and wanted to know what your daily tasks were and your salary after the learning course? What was your interview like, anything would be useful please email me at, thanks.

  150. 150 Jon


    You seem to be very educated about this field. How does one educated themselves on prop trading? What books would you recommend. I’m about to start applying to firms so please let me know..



  151. 151 Jon

    I’m thinking about moving to NY. but could you elaborate more on that program?

    Could you also reccomend any reading material?

  152. 152 Egarim


    I interviewed for T3 and got an offer. I ended up declining the offer. I didn’t like their recruitment process and I could sense they weren’t always telling the entire truth. I felt there were some white lies in there and it seemed a bit shady. The trader who was in charge of making most of the phone calls/e-mails etc. kept calling me up after the first interview as well. Although it was good that they showed a lot of interest in getting me, they were really pestering me a lot. Also, the interview process was quite different then elsewhere. For you first round interview, you meet with all upper management. You come in with a group of people and you rotate interviews with each person. The first round interview ends up being the only one too (atleast for me) which is weird imo. Overall, the firm seemed ok, but you should go there and judge for yourself. Make sure to ask lots of questions. One of the partners encourages and does a good job of answering them, but I felt like he was putting on a show and some of his answers were not entirely honest. That’s just my opinion.

  153. 153 Jon

    Prop Trading VS Equity Research? Any opinions?

  154. 154 Karel

    How I can find Proprietary trading Firm in MIAMI ?
    Thank you

  155. 155 Ebony Boller

    Hello, Publisher

    I thank you for the list you have provided above. I am still a little confused. I wish to work for one of these proprietary companies. I am not quite sure how to go about finding the right one. I live in Charlotte, NC and I don’t have the funds to travel outside the country. I want a firm that will train me, and pay me a commission to trade for them. I currently have my series 6,63, and 7. Would you please make some recommendations for me.

    Thank you,
    Ebony Boller

  156. 156 Babak

    Call any of them and they’ll straighten you out:

    *firms don’t pay commission, they charge a commission!
    *you can trade remote with a firm not in your city/state/country
    *training (if any) depends on the firm
    *choosing a prop firm is up to you - perform full due diligence

  157. 157 Gram Wellington

    I trade remotely with Arima Capital, They are based in NYC but trade remotely in Chicago, IL. I hold my 7,63,55 with them. They train new traders remotely via web/teleconference which is a one month in depth training program they put their remote traders through and six months training at their inhouse location. For new traders looking to trade remotely and get the education needed to trade I highly recommend you check them out.

  158. 158 Sean

    I’m a recent college graduate who has some unrelated work experience but am looking to start a career in trading. Can anyone recomend some good comapnies for me to look into ? Thanks.

  159. 159 James

    anyone hear about these guys? prop firm in Miami Beach. let me know if anyone knows anything. thanks

  160. 160 ed mulvihill

    Does anyone know any developers of trading systems?
    I have an opening with an options trading firm


  161. 161 brock

    Prop Firms in Miami Beach

    Yes there some firms in Miami. Assent LLC in called Waserman Capital which is located at 420 Lincoln Rd. Suite 233. I am getting ready to start there myself. The capital contribution is 7,500 at the leverage you 10 to 1 starting with 300 shares and charging a penny per share. There is also Trillium Trading and Keystone is opening an office. I really don’t know much about these firms. If someone knows what the deal is with these firms please let me know.

    I would also like some information from the various Option Prop Shops.

    This site is a very usefull

    Thank You,

  162. 162 Jon

    Hey Brock, thanks for posting that info.

    Can I shoot you an e-mail?

  163. 163 JT

    Is there a way to narrow the prop list to city/state?

    I’m trying to find some in Georgia


  164. 164 Ankit

    Hi saurabh,
    like you im from india too….did u get ne reply from capstone or swift trade?have u found any other prop trading firms in india?please advise.

    also can anyone else help me with some more of prop trading firms in india?


  165. 165 Frank

    Hey guys question,

    Chimera Capital out of NYC. Anybody here anything? And what can a decent trader expect, salarywise.

  166. 166 Mike

    Just had two questions if anyone can answer these

    If you live in Canada and are looking to trade with a proprietary firm and take this so called “Series 7 course” would a U.S. prop firm be able to hire them and give them the leverage every prop trader receives? Are they then considered proprietary by the sec?


    I see that a equity trading firm in CA Tuco Trading was shut down for taking an initial capital contribution from traders? Does the SEC not allow this anymore? Do all equity traders now have to have their series7?

    These are very foggy subjects I am having trouble finding the answers on thanks

  167. 167 Babak

    re Tuco, they were charged by the SEC for serious violations that had nothing to do with “capital contribution” from traders. Read the link. These may also be enlightening:

    SEC vs Tuco Court Order
    (PDF document)

    AFAIK, if you are a Canadian citizen/resident, you do not need series 7 registration. It is only for US citizens/residents. So you can trade remotely, while living in Canada, with a US prop firm. But again, this is based on info I have at the moment, I’m not a lawyer so don’t take this as gospel.

  168. 168 Mike


    I do a lot of reading on several message forums regarding equity/prop trading. There is some bad stuff going on out there, I see message forums deleting certain threads that pertain to this tuco thing and it looks like all trading firms are on hold regarding the court status this week of tuco. Seems there might be a sting coming to all these equity trading firms. If all these equity trading firms can only hire prop traders (series 7) or customer accounts minimum of 30k and provide them with 4:1 intraday and 2:1 overnight I know traders who will be living in the streets soon and sub/LLC’s will start shutting down one after one.

    Babak what are your thoughts on this??

  169. 169 Babak

    Mike, I don’t think any of that is happening. If you actually find out why Tuco got into trouble with the SEC you’ll see that this is just fear (false evidence appearing real).

  170. 170 Peter

    Hi Babak,
    did you check about the nextlevel capital. Are they scam? You haven’t added the company to the prop list.

  171. 171 Babak

    Peter, I’ve added them. Originally I thought you were talking about next level capital instead of next level trading capital. So many names! ;-)

  172. 172 Matt

    Hi guys,

    I have been trading equities full-time (with a decent profit) for a year now and am moving into index futures.

    I am in Sydney, Australia and want to know if any of you guys know any prop firm here or anywhere else in Australia (other than Propex)?

    I am mainly looking for the mentorship provided there by professionals who make a living out of trading (no fake vendors). Along with the quick transaction times (to minimise slippage) and low commissions.



  173. 173 Jarrod

    Has anyone heard of RBC Professional Trading Group in NYC?
    I interviewed with them several weeks ago and they seem to good to be true…
    No intial contribution, however one has to accumulate $25,000.00 before one begins earning any compensation. (They said it would take 9-12 months to do so…)

    If anyone has heard anything about them, any other info about them would be greatly appreciated.

  174. 174 Jeff

    I’m looking for a prop shop in NYC too. Lets talk. email me at


  175. 175 Byron

    Wow, thank you. I was just spending this Sunday searching the web for exactly this info, much appreciated for putting it all together. I’ve subscribed to your email updates and added the feed to my rss reader. Gracias.

  176. 176 Kobi


    Do you have a list of firms that don’t require capital commitments, pay a small starting salary and have extensive training programs?

    For example, Trillium Trading would fit this model. Any idea about which other firms do the same?

  177. 177 Byron

    Second Kobi’s question. When I get a chance will go through the list looking for such firms and repost them in the comments. May not be able to till the weekend, though.

  178. 178 Joey

    Do any of these propietary firms see any kind of order flow or do they all just trade off electronic quotes? I prefer to see flow myself and would like to hook up with a group that okays this.

  179. 179 Steve

    Does anyone know of a Prop in Orlando, FL Area? Thanks in advance

  180. 180 hallligan

    Has anyone heard about CBDTrading group, prestigecapital,
    They seem to be branches of one
    A friend of mine has been trading with them but every year the site where he is logging in (TRADER LOGIN) changing.
    So far he got all money he has profited.
    I am planning to open account with them, now the site is
    Anyone who has heard about them? Any comments?

  181. 181 Paranoid Trader

    Good evening ladies and gents,

    I am looking for a way to forklift myself out of the current golden cage I’m in and into a position that has less limited upside.

    Over some twelve years I amassed huge amount of knowledge trading futures, options on futures, volatility instruments and lots of other stuff. I can hedge a book on the fly in my head, can see out mis-priced trades in fractions of a second and generally believe that in the long run there is no way to make money in linear markets (equities and futures) unless someone else is making much more on your back. This is exacerbated by the fact that I’m working for a very hard core sell-side solution firm.

    After all the pessimism and paranoia, though, I’m able to churn out a good

  182. 182 Paranoid Trader

    … and steady 2-6 % return per month in a flaccid market and a juicy 8%-12% monthly when markets are out of whack. These aren’t the 150% per day daytrading returns props are looking for, and most of them don’t really understand options anyway (not that I do, but at least I know enough to plug all the obvious holes and come home alive).

    Problem is that my resume is entirely technical; I make a six figures in a senior technical role and nowhere in sight will my path cross that of a trading desk, certainly not a kind of desk that I’m looking for.

    I need a firm that would honestly lever me a couple bucks so that I’ll be able to steadily roll in my five percent a month, with a 13-18% or so exposure and build on top of this. If it was some relatively small shop where technical and trading roles could be really combined, more power to them. If anyone has ideas for me, feel free to email paranoidtrader AT . If you’ll help me make my first billion, I’ll track you down personally and will give you your cut.

  183. 183 Mark

    I know someone who used to work for Nexis, and I wouldn’t recommend it. They supposedly give you training, but trust me, the guys who are doing the training don’t know what they are doing. However, they partnered with a new firm, and so maybe they are training better than they used to. But after a few months alot of people were really depressed and just gave up. I think that’s just how prop trading is in general. If you are going to try to trade for a prop firm be ready to do a lot of learning and studying on your own.

    As for Star Alliance Capital . . . it’s nicknamed “the revolving door.” They have traders landing and leaving like flies. Nexis used to share space with them, and they weren’t very great. I think they just took in anyone with the capital.

  184. 184 Halligan

    Thank you Mark. Your comment was realy useful.
    Who knows about Cygroup. Anyone worked with them?

  185. 185 gary

    trying to find a Proprietary trading firm or trading arcades in south florida west or east side if any info please let me know
    Thanks gary

  186. 186 Jeremy

    Does anyone know which of these firms do not require capital contribution and/or provide a base salary? I am coming out of college and looking for employment with a prop trading firm, but have no money or experience.

  187. 187 Samantha

    Hey everyone -

    I have been trading on my own for over a year and am thinking of joining a prop firm - trouble is half of what is written here on this board scares the heck out of me and really doesn’t give me much incentive past what I already have.

    There is a company called Assent that has an office here but you have to get licensed and their are alot of account restrictions.

    Is it really all that BETTER to trade with a remote prop firm and if so - which one? Is there a better one than Assent out there?


  188. 188 Babak

    Gary, I’m going to break the listing down to include geographic locations and other info.

    Jeremy, the one firm I know that doesn’t require capital contribution is Swift but I have heard some negative things about them. It depends which office you join since I’ve also heard good things. So keep your wits about and do not put up with any BS from them.

    Samantha, Assent is a good firm from what I hear but you have to find a firm that works for you and that may not be the biggest or the best known. I’ll do a post on the advantages/disadvantages of a prop firm vs. on your own.

  189. 189 Mark

    hi guys

    I am new to trading NYSE and NASD as I’m over here in London trading Xetra and LSE. I’m currently at a UK based prop shop and they have just gotten access to NYSE and NASD. I’m pretty stoked about this and the rates they have quoted are: $0.01/share discounted down to $0.005 per share including all other fees based on volume discounts. I’m a fully backed trader with limits up to $800,000 intraday. Does the rate seem a little high for a first-timer? Bearing in mind there aren’t many prop firms over here which offer the States. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


  190. 190 Jon

    Are there 9 guys in here in Chicago that would want to put $10,000 together (each) and open a small office (or home office) trading futures and forex. Instead of looking for a prop shop we can just put something together ourselves. Just a thought. Let’s kick some ideas around…

  191. 191 proptrading germany

    VAN DER MOOLEN is obviously missing in your list ( They have quite successful proprietary trading branches in Cologne (Köln), Germany (not that far from Frankfurt) and Zug, Switzerland. In Amsterdam they also proptrade.
    They do not require any capital contribution, pay a salary and profit split. So if you search for a job at a prop house in Europe, its a good choice. You should speak German or English, but German speaking is not mandatory as a proprietary trader in Germany or Switzerland.

    Experienced profitable traders are always welcome to expand the team of about 30 traders right now in Cologne and Zug branches.

    Es gibt Offices von Van der Moolen in Köln, Deutschland sowie in Zug, Schweiz. Es wird nur Eigenhandel mit Firmenkapital betrieben. Händler erhalten ein Gehalt Bonus (profit split). Erfahrene profitable Trader Daytrader zur Erweiterung des Teams (derzeit ca. 30 Eigenhändler) werden immer gesucht.

  192. 192 Babak

    I’m always grateful for feedback from my readers, whether it is to know of changes to the list or new additions or any other relevant information. However…

    Comments that include advertisements and solicitations will be removed from the blog. I have zero tolerance for this so don’t be surprised if your comments are redacted, completely removed and/or your IP blocked.

  193. 193 Jason

    Alright guys Im currently trading futures and equities in London and looking to move to the West coast of America and trade, can anyone give me any ideas of place to contact!


  194. 194 Mark

    With regard to VanderMoolen paying salaries and profit splits, could you tell me why they shut down the entires UK operation of Equity traders? Is it true they fired over 80 traders in the UK? Are the profit splits commensurate with the UK i.e 70% and upwards?

    Koennen Sie mir bitte ecklaren ob es richtig wahr ist dass VDM in London hat umgefehr 80 Leute entlassen? Was fuer ein % gibt’s in Deutschland ? Ist es genau so hoch wie in London Zb 70%?

  195. 195 Jason

    yeah they got rid of the whole prop trading side of the business! Never had a down month!!

  196. 196 Geezer

    VDM never had a down month and they still got rid of everyone? I heard they had over 50 trainees all earning a salary and only about 10 senior traders who they were hoping would subsidize all the juniors. I spoke to some of their ex-traders who said the profit splits were like 20-30% payable once a year and the desk costs were like £50K a year too. No wonder they only had trainees there. Surprised they managed to keep that many senior traders with those splits hahahahahah

  197. 197 Mike

    Experienced Equity Trader

    Our firm is looking for experienced remote equity traders:

    What we provide:

    1. 20-1 Intraday Leveraging (starting out)
    2. 2-1 Overnight Leveraging
    3. Sterling Pro proprietary software
    4. As low as $.0025/share. (Variable with daily volume)
    5. 95 - 100% Payout
    6. Test drive our sophisticated demo software

    Our NYC based equity trading firm has recently expanded and we are looking to grow our remote trading team. We offer some of the lowest rates and best technology in the industry. We also provide our remote traders with our trader support desk, technical assistance and an at ease feel trading with our firm. Contact us today and begin trading within twenty-four hours.

    There is no training involved. This position is for experienced equity traders looking for a more competitive rate, advanced proprietary software and a professional firm to trade with.


  198. 198 Paranoid Trader

    I really don’t understand why do otherwise intelligent people keep coming back to the hard core pure equities day-trading sweatshops, ridiculously undercapitalized, usually sparingly familiar with the underpinnings of the markets and believing all the crud that the “senior traders” tend to repeat. Yes, everyone is wired for gambling, but to think that one can make a living by simply trading linear securities with leverage up the wazoo - I don’t think that one is really in everyone’s bones …

  199. 199 Chad

    Hi, I’m just coming out of college and im looking for a prop shop that doesn’t require initial capital contribution. Do you guys know of any firms out there? I’m in the New York City area. Thank you

  200. 200 Joe

    Hey all, how much does a typical first year options trader make at a top equity derivatives market making prop shop (Think DRW, SIG, Wolverine….)? Are there initial capital contributions at these firms? Assume this is just a trader fresh out of undergrad on an electronic desk heavily monitored, as it takes years to make it down to the actual trading floor. I understand that the answer relies heavily on performance, but what is a feasible pay range for such a position?

  201. 201 Babak

    Chad, there are many who don’t require cap contribution. In fact I think most don’t. The more important point though is the quality of the firm not whether they require a deposit.

    Joe, why not contact the firms directly and ask?

  202. 202 Joe

    Babak, contacting the firm and asking is not a bad idea, however, the last thing I want to do is come across to the firm that I will be working at as greedy individual who is only concerned about how big his or her paycheck will be. With that said, does anybody know a round about ballpark range that a derivatives trader could make first year out?

  203. 203 Alfi

    why not ask the firm about your financial future and potential at the firm? are people nowdays afraid to ask the firm, what the firm is offering to them? It should be a natural part of the process. they interview you and your capabilities, talents and education..and you should do the same to them…what can they offer to you? what future and potential can the the company give you? why should you be working for them? and and and. ..interview them the same way they like to interview you. its a mutual rel.ship. .:-))

  204. 204 Joe

    Alfi, I agree with you to a certain extent. That is, the extent to which a full-time employee has the right to know what he or she will be paid. However, I should have stated this in my original post, but I am just going to be a summer intern at one of these firms. I am just trying to get a vision of how much a first year trader would/could make at one of these firms. Or stated differently, I’m trying to figure out if I should make a career out of derivatives trading (and no, pay is not the ONLY thing I’m concerned about). So all I was wondering was if anybody on this board had some figures for me to get a perspective of the position. So, as just an intern, I’m not going to call my firm and ask for this information because in my opinion that would send the wrong signals and make a bad first impression…..

  205. 205 Babak

    Joe, it all depends how you phrase it. If you appear to be researching all aspects of a potential job because you are trying to make a choice from among the options you have, I don’t think any firm will hold it against you. You can also ask at various online forums like elitetrader and maybe even better in this case, wilmott.

  206. 206 Carl

    Hi there -

    I am wondering if you are not licensed and want to open a prop account (remotely) with let’s say $5k or $10K as initial investment, can a company provide 10 to 1 or 20 to 1 leverage intraday without obtaining your Series 7, 63, 55 licenses? I don’t care about payouts if that gets around the issue but obviously I don’t want to do anything that is not legal.

    I am looking for a company I can start trading with immediately if this is okay to do -

  207. 207 Mike Anderson


    Yes, I run a remote equity trading group for a trading firm I am with in NYC. You do not need your 7,63,55. I can provide traders with 20 to 1 intra-day starting and 2 to 1 overnight. Payout structure is between 95 - 99%. Minimum Capital is $5,000. The trading firm I am with is in full compliance and everything is structured in a way that is legal. They currently have over 650 traders. Due to the volume I am able to produce in my group I can pass extremetly low trading rates on to new and experienced traders. Any questions feel free to e-mail me

  208. 208 Jason

    Hi guys Im looking for any prop firms based on the West coast US, any ideas!?


  209. 209 Alfi

    yes Carl
    You can trade remotely with putting 5k or 10k down and you dont have to have the mentioned licenses. there are plenty firms out there, that will give you 1:10 leverage. 1:20 would be rather possible if you had the licenses. so the licenses only give you a better deal. but otherwise its pretty much the same. you still have to make money and be profitable to survive, no matter if you have licenses or not..:-))
    but the answer is : YES. you can trade remotely without the licenses.

  210. 210 Zach


    Has anyone ever heard of Genesis Investment Partners in Stamford, Ct? Apparently they may be a new firm, but I am pretty sure that they are affiliated with Access Securities (also Stamford, Ct). I have an interview with them next week, so any information would be greatly appreciated.

  211. 211 Mike Anderson

    Looking to expand my remote trading group with Velez Capital. Any experienced traders looking for a more competitive rate, leveraged buying-power, I can have you setup in 24hrs. Access to Sterling Pro & VCM Trader. 99% payout structure, buying-power starting at 20:1.

    Mike Anderson

  212. 212 tom

    It would be much more useful to have ranking for the prop shops. Best Prop Firms top 10, and maybe best Trading Arcades Top 10.


  213. 213 RiskofRuin

    Opus Atlanta

    Has anyone heard of this prop firm? They’ve been advertising for the last month for trainees.

    Is the best strategy to :

    1) Not put any of your own money up as a contribution.

    2) Make fewer trades to not have to pay huge fees.

    3) Use very strict money management.

    4) Trade conservatively

    Is it possible to beat the prop game, and earn at least 30k in the first year. I’ve been paper trading since high school, and use demo accounts to practice this craft. How do you survive this game a winner? My endgame is to leave with enough money to trade under my own rules, and system.

  214. 214 Babak

    tom, re rankings, by who’s standards? the best prop firm for one trader may be the worst for another.

  215. 215 Alfi

    to riskoruin:
    good luck with papertrading. however real trading is totally something different.
    go try and you will see

  216. 216 YK

    Have a few questions about Prop shops: (first of all, great information here, thanks to all)

    1. It seems that most of the discusions here eludes to day trading only. Does any of these prop shops allow overnight holding or position holding that can last up to 2-3 weeks? Just wondering. I have been working on a strategy for the past 5 years, and finally found a perfect strategy. With only $4000 in capital, I was only abot to grab 65 shares of RIMM at $120.34 on April 23, 2008. I just sold them yesterday at $143.79 for a net profit of $1505, and that’s using the brokerage’s 2:1 leverage. As you can see, a prop shop would really help me leverage here.

    2. The list of prop shops is great, but can you be more specific, I’m especially looking for a prop shop that allows remote trading along with $0 or low capital. I’m not worried about making the money. One response above talked about a limit of 3 trades and 300 shares per day and $50K buying power. Ex. with 300 sh limit, I’d have used it to buy 300 sh. SINA at $53.20 yesterday and take it off this morning near $59.50 for about $1800 in gains. Now, if the fees add up to $1800 too, then forget about this.

    About my strategy: uses simple technical analysis, preferrably chart patterns combined with contrarian emphasis and short term fundamental analysis. In short, I’m looking for a strong stock with proven EPS and Revenue gains for past year against the reaction of the market crowd. What that leads too? Buy RIMM at $120 and selling at $140, buying IBM at $120 on May 1, 2008, and still holding it now at $127. For those who want a live trade, I also bought OTEX at $37.15, and it is still trading in that range. I’m looking for $50 on its next leg move. Better yet, buy OTEX Aug. 35 calls at $5.00. If OTEX hits $50 by expiration, we’re talking about 200% gains.

    Anyways, thanks in advance for your answers.

  217. 217 Babak

    YK, most prop shops would extend the services you’re looking for. You can hold overnight or for longer but be prepared to pay ‘haircut’ or interest rate charges. Again, most prop firms offer remote trading, low capital contribution, etc. Only thing is that some do not allow derivative trading and others specialize in it.

  218. 218 YK

    Thanks Babak, don’t mind if I ask a few more questions? I’m just trying to get a good read here before making a commitment.

    First of all, I noticed a lot of talk about commission prices, but there were no clear answer, so my question is What type of extra fees are included when joining a prop firm? (Ex. any seat fees, addtl market fees, etc) Just asking because I’m sure most of you guys trading for prop firms are losing money over only commission fees.

    For the experienced prop traders: What kind of restrictions did you face? Ex. couldn’t trade a certain time, couldn’t trade a certain stock, or maybe not making enough trades, etc. Anything you experienced would be helpful.

    Again, thank you all in advance for your answers.

  219. 219 Alex

    Hi Babak,

    I am seeking information on “The Angle Group” in NYC. Any information would be greatly appreciated.


  220. 220 JT

    Thanks for all your info and this Q & A setup Babak. I would like to expand on an earlier poster”s requests for a ranked list of prop firms. I am a newbie so my priorities for my list are 1)traing. 2)a firm’s desire to actually create profitable traders and not just an endless source of incoming contribution money. 3)size. One last question… Pacif Coast Trading still around? Link did not work and they didn’t come up on a search.

  221. 221 Babak

    JT, thanks for the heads up. It looks like pacific is no more. As I mentioned before, since there is no objective basis for rating prop shops, it doesn’t make much sense.

  222. 222 Nick Loyd

    Alex, what do you want to know about the Angle group? I know that they make you take a class, which they charge $3,000 for. What type of firm are you looking for?

  223. 223 tom

    ranking prop shops can be based a list of criterias. I think there is a way…and if the prop shop is top tier usually there is a consensus among the community.

    A sample list of criteras

    Leverage: 6:1 or 10:1 or 60:1

    Sponsorship: Series 7

    Mentoring: What the level

    Community: Are top traders gathered at this firm

    Pricing: .01/share or .007/share or .005/share …also other fees

    Tech: Execution Speed, Routing, Charting Tools…etc

    Payout: 90% or 95% or 99%; Weekly, Monthly; Direct Deposit or Check

    Selectivity: How difficult is it to get in

    Financials: Does the trading firm have plenty of capital or is it on shaky ground?

    Reputation: How well known is it

    There could be others we should add to it but this could be major ones. Just put a rank between 1-10…10 being the highest….I have a feeling it’s more objective than you think, though some subjectivity will always be there.


  224. 224 JT

    As Samantha alluded to in an earlier post, I would would very much like to hear from some of those 5-10 % of the prop traders who are successful. The seemingly small percentage of traders who succeed long-term does not deter me from entering the prop arena. We have heard plenty from the other 90-95 %ers who seem to have disdain for prop trading……..let’s here from those who are making it it! What are you doing correctly? What are the others doing wrong? I know that those are broad-stroke questions, but I think most of the readers come here to find out the bad AND the good. I am sure your input can help newbies like me avoid some potential trading land mines thus increasing our potential for success eponentially.

    and Tom- well composed list as far as my un-trained eyes can tell!

  225. 225 Babak

    Tom, thanks for your input. I’m still puzzled how you propose a quantifiable ranking based on these qualitative measures. For example, the leverage provided depends on the type of trading, experience and other conditions contingent on the specific situation. The same qualitative grey area can be said to exist for mentoring, commissions, selectivity, reputation, etc. For example, what is “plenty of capital” and how should we ascertain if a firm has it? what accounting measure or ratio should we use? The only black and white criterion is Series 7 sponsorship, and years in operation (which you didn’t mention). I look forward to hearing your ideas on this. Perhaps we can set up a sort of poll or voting widget.

  226. 226 DP

    Has anyone here actually made a salary with these firms that they were able to buy groceries with?


    I’m looking into Title Trading. Do they require a contribution?

    thanks, helpful thread.

  227. 227 Alfi

    another criterie would be: does the firm keep your initial capital contribution for a certain time?
    Lets say, you want to close the trading account after a few months. how long does it take to get the money back?
    some company hold the fund for at least a year no matter what.

    whats the minimum contribution?
    is there any minimum monthly, weekly or daily volume, the trader has to trade? if so…what are the consequences, if you dont meet the creteria? (meaning, what kind of fees are coming towards you..??

  228. 228 JT

    Let’s start with you Babak…….tell us about your world of trading. What do you trade? How long did it take you to become consistently profitable?

  229. 229 Babak

    DP, over on elitetrader there are quite a few prop traders who post journals or contribute frequently.

    JT, I’m not trading with a prop firm and my trading has morphed into less frenetic and more swing-like or position like as time goes on.

  230. 230 JT

    TY for you policy that prohibits solicitation Babak. I have been coming the prop forum at ET and Bright trading is all over the boards trying to recruit and offer biased, glossed over answers in an attempt ot steer traders their way. BTW- someone did come up with a 3-tiered rating of prop firms you may want to look at. I Have no idea of the quality of the list or the metrics he used to compile it. thought you might want to take a look at it since we have discussed the concept here.

  231. 231 Ank


    I was just wondering if anyone has any idea abt the first interview at allston. Also is there any website to pratice fro logical and math test ?

  232. 232 Mike Anderson

    Any experienced traders looking for a better rate on Sterling Pro drop me an e-mail. I will be any rate, must have proof of P&L statement.

  233. 233 hp

    This is a great service. I wish you all could list per state in the US. It makes it easier to browse and find a possible trading home. Thanks

  234. 234 Chad


    I got an offter to trade with Lynx Capital Partners in NYC. Do you or does anybody know anything good or bad about this firm???? It seems like a good place but I just want to make sure. Thanks man

  235. 235 Babak

    Ank, not offhand but you can google for microsoft/google interview type questions. The only site I know of is lumosity but am sure there are more around.

    hp, I’m working on making the info more useful and continue to keep it up to date. I’m not sure parsing it that finely would be helpful since remote trading and the competitive nature of the industry makes it irrelevant for the most part.

    Chat, I haven’t heard anything negative about them. I would suggest you search elitetrader and other trading boards for info from past/present traders there. Best of luck.

  236. 236 Learner

    Chad: you asked about Lynx in NYC … I did not see any feedback… do you get any ?

  237. 237 Chad


    I didnt get much feedback but from what I got it seems like a good company. Why, do you know something?

  238. 238 Learner

    My son got an offer from Lynx… but he’s on a trip now…so I am trying to get educated on this this entire arena. Where are you from?

  239. 239 Chad


    Im from Freehold Nj. Is your son going to take the offer? If you dont mind me asking? If he does maybe I’ll be training with him. Hopefully they have a good training program

  240. 240 RTB

    Here are some questions from my timed oral math interview today (3rd round). I know it’s also important to measure how you respond, but does anyone else want to share some of their own?


    1. If Jack has an account worth $1,000 and it decreases by $100, then by what percent does it need to increase to break even?

    2. If there is a hat with 2 green balls, 6 red balls, 3 yellow balls, and 4 orange balls, what fraction represents the probability that you will grab a yellow or green ball?

    3. If 5 times the first number equals 6 times the second number and if 2 times the first number is equal to 16 more than the second number, then what is the second number?

    4. If you have 8 coins worth $1.45 and you have an equal chance of grabbing any one of them, then what type of coin are you most likely to grab?

    5. If it takes a snail 1 day to climb 5 meters of a wall, but it slides down 4 meters each night, then how many days will it take for the snail to reach the top of a 20 meter wall?

    6. If there are 3 faucets, one takes 20 minutes to fill the sink, another takes 12 minutes to fill it, and the last one takes 5 minutes, then how long does it take to fill the sink if all 3 are on at the same time?

    7. If you average 80% on 3 tests, then what score do you have to get on the 4th to bring your average up to 85%?

    8. If the top of a ladder is leaning up against the top of a wall 7 meters high and pulling back the ladder by 1 foot allows it to lay flat on the ground up to the base of the wall, then how long is the ladder?

  241. 241 RTB

    Oh…and they make the explanation of the test super long-winded and repetitive to mess with your anxiety level because you are anticipating it so much…at least I was…I love these tests! But I totally failed. I can’t believe some of the answers I gave, and with such CONVICTION in my voice…and the whole time she was telling me how great I was doing…ha! At least I am good at sales…

  242. 242 ank

    RTB: Which company u got interviewed who ask maths question orally!

  243. 243 RTB

    Oh…this one is cool

    Four people need to cross a rickety rope bridge to get back to their camp at night. Unfortunately, they only have one flashlight and it only has enough light left for seventeen minutes. The bridge is too dangerous to cross without a flashlight, and it’s only strong enough to support two people at any given time.

    Each of the campers walks at a different speed. One can cross the bridge in 1 minute, another in 2 minutes, the third in 5 minutes, and the slow poke takes 10 minutes to cross. How do the campers make it across in 17 minutes?

    The solution is simple, your behavior in solving it is what is important. They re just another form of behavioral questions. The reason I failed this part of the inteview was not that I got the wrong answer. Rather, it was because I was hasty in answering them. I even gave up my alotted time on one question because I figured I had no idea how to answer it, but I might have been able to figure it out.

    To answer your question, I won’t tell you the name of the company. This was only my first interview with a prop firm, but I imagine they test you on this if they are in need of programmers to write and or maintain their algorithms. But isn’t that what prop firms do?

    Does the training consist primarily of learning about writing agorithms or trading securities?

  244. 244 Byron

    Ank: For brain teaser/logic question interview practice, try this book Work through that sucker and you’ll be nearly unstumpable.

    Edit, that was the 2000 version, it has since been updated twice (2003 and 2008)

    Also from Wilmott

  245. 245 RTB

    i just bought it…i can’t wait!

  246. 246 dee

    can’t they all cross in 10 minutes?

    slowpoke takes 10 minutes, so he gets goin. he holds the flash light the whole time.

    mr. 5 minutes goes,

    then mr. 2 minutes,

    then mr. 1 minute.

    by the time the quickest 3 get across, slowpoke still has 2 minutes left to get across.

    what the hell’s wrong with that?

  247. 247 Justin

    Babak or anyone else, will you please give me some input on Bright trading? I was trying to get some info from Elite Trader but Don Bright (the owner) is very active in the forums. It is hard to get info without him hovering and sending a tons of PMs. He said his traders usually put up 20K allowing them to trade a million.

  248. 248 Byron

    Anyone know anything about TCA Markets?

    Remote trading, mentoring, trade company funds.

  249. 249 Byron

    dee: the flashlight has to be with the crossers. assume its batteries are almost dead and it can only illuminate the bridge right at the holder’s feet, no further.

    A&B cross, A comes back = 3m
    C&D cross, B comes back = 12m
    A&B cross = 2m
    Total time = 17m

  250. 250 Babak

    Justin, Don is a salesperson and he never turns it off so if you want to get info about Bright just ask for current and past traders or simply use the search function. There is ample discussion in the archives about Bright and there are many Bright traders to be found on ET. From what I know they skimp on the tech side of things (not an issue if you trade remote), they start their new traders on OO but they are one of the largest and oldest firms out there. You can always PM a few Bright traders and chat “off the record”. Cheers.

    google reveals some info from elitetrader and trade2win threads. To put it mildly, they have mixed reviews so tread carefully.

  251. 251 Byron

    Thanks Babak.

  252. 252 Eugene

    Hi! Does anyone know of any prop trading firms hiring spot FX traders? Or banks/finance companies hiring FX spot traders? Thanks

  253. 253 Mandeep

    Many thanks for putting this list together, didn’t realise there were so many firms…….awesome!!
    Would greatly appreciate if someone could help with a couple of queries.
    When these companies ask for experienced traders, over how long a time frame do they like to see consistent profits before they consider taking you on and what percentage of profits do they take for beginners?

  254. 254 Prospectus

    I’ve traded part-time with Remata Trading for the past year or so. Thomas Lanzana is outstanding to work with, and I would stay with Remata all things being equal. However, they have just recently decided to stop using their web-based order system, which I need to use (firewalls at work and all that–I only have access to port 80).

    So, I am looking for a firm that has a web-based order entry option, will allow me to be free of pattern daytrader restrictions, and has no desk or software fees (I only trade part time as I get free moments at work), just commissions. I am also coding some autotrading software so I can be away from the markets but still be involved, so an API would be cool, but not required with a web-based system.

    Does anybody know any of these firms that would meet my needs (web-based order entry, no fees, no PDT?)

  255. 255 Jack

    Can anyone give Me a list of of firms that require NO initial capital contribution? I hear a lot of people saying that lots of firms don’t, but no one can seem to provide a list.

  256. 256 Ronnie

    Does anyone have any infomation on M&N Trading in Newport Beach?!

  257. 257 Sol

    Hi everyone I was hoping to get some advice from some people in this forum.

    I have just started at one of the firms mentioned in this forum (and it’s a company that hasn’t got very good reviews and shall remain nameless).

    My deadline to pay the capital contribution is soon and I don’t know if this is something that I want to do for the next few months or even years. I keep getting tempted by the lure of large payouts, but then I read forums like this one and realize it’s not likely to happen.

    I’m really confused about what to do. Is it stupid of me to pay a capital contribution at all? Shall I just walk away or stick it out? I’m a recent college grad and I’m worried about not being employed in this job market - so that is a huge incentive for me to stay on.

    Also, can someone answer me a question that hasn’t been fully addressed yet? How do employers feel about traders who take a new career path (eg. accounting) after they are done trading? Are traders seen as people who couldn’t make into real business jobs? Is trading something you can put on your resume? How highly valued is trader experience by employers?

    I hope someone can answer my 2 questions separately because it would really help me in my decision making process.

    Thanks guys, all your advice so far is great.


  258. 258 Mike


    I run an equity trading group based out of NYC. I am not sure what city you are in but I also provide full training to remote traders that come on with my group as well as in-house. Right now my group consists of about 25 experienced traders. I have been trading for approximately 7 years and have developed my new traders into profitable trades on a intra-day basis. I do not advertise and stick with building my team on a referral basis and avoid all the nonsense out there. You must have your series 7 license although we do sponsor for it. There is a capital contribution of $5,000 to fund your trading account once you are series 7 licensed. I am only interested in traders who can dedicate at least 3 - 6 months full-time getting trained. Also, for any experienced traders we trade on the Anvil platform, if you are looking for a more competitive rate or professional group to deal with send me an e-mail.

  259. 259 Alfi

    I would advise you
    dont pay your money…if they want you to pay….screw them..and get out of it as soon as possible.
    I guarantee you, you will never see your money again, if you pay your contribution!

    Take my advise, or leave it..:-)) its up to you

  260. 260 Michael

    Hey all,
    I was not planning to post, though I changed my mind, because there is a lot of misinformation moving around on this board. It seems to me that the posts I have read fall into 1 of 2 categories. 1. Newbies who want to get an idea of the prop trading world. 2. Haters talking down the prop trading world.
    I have been prop trading for about a year now. I pay .04 cents share (.0004), and receive a 50% payout. My firm required no capital contribution. I lost about 7 K total in the first 6 months (2 months net flat, 4 months small losses), however my firm pays a 2k salary (not draw, salary). I was able to make this 7K back in the next 2 months, (yes it certainly helped that BSC went bankrupt). This month, my ninth, I grossed 14,500 on 1.5 million tickets so I netted about 8000 after SEC fee’s and such, meaning I took home about 4k on the month. Though these numbers are not extremely impressive, I recognize that there is a lot of potential for me to make much more in the future. Currently my buying power is only 100K and my max position size is 1000 shares.

    Aside from that, I love the job. There is a ton of freedom, and it is extremely exciting and interesting. I actually do look forward to going to work every morning. I do not understand the heavy veil of negativity that you all seem to feel towards prop trading firms. By no means is it “impossible to make money”. Think about it, even if your ticket cost (how much you pay per thousand shares) is 10 dollars a ticket, you would only have to make 2 cents a share per trade in order to break even. That is certainly not impossible.

    I am not saying that it is easy by any means, nor that everyone is having success. The truth is few people do succeed, and it is very difficult to put up any kind of a positive month in your first half of a year or so. However, if you have discipline, and work by a proven method (keep your losses small, let your profits run… trend is your friend) then there is no reason why you cannot be successful as a prop trader.

    It upsets me that there are so many negative posts about trading on this blog. I am extremely interested in what I am doing, and hope that I will be successful enough to continue this as a career. Had I read alot of these posts a year ago, I probably never would have started trading, and that would be extremely unfortunate considering how passionate I now am about the market. I definetly reccomend considering this job to anyone who is driven and has a passion for trading. You definetly need a stomach for loss, this is definetly a game that is more psychological then intellectualy, but great success is not a myth, it is certainly possible… Not easy, but possible.

    Don’t let the haters keep you from trading your way to financial freedom. Good luck everybody!

  261. 261 Sol

    Hi everyone, I’m just updating you on the decision that I have made so far. I decided on Monday that I did not want to pay the capital contribution to the firm that I was at and I left. I think it was definitely the right decision to make and I have no regrets.

    Big thanks to Alfi for the advice - it was definitely the correct thing to do. He is completely correct about not seeing your money again - let me explain. Last Friday I asked to see the profitability of some of the other traders at the firm where I worked and I was quite impressed. They were all gross positive in terms of their trades and had been working there for quite a few months. Then I saw their net profitability and I was shocked.

    For one guy, a $4k balance on his account turned into -$2500 after all the fees! That’s a $6500 swing because of all the fees and commissions etc. so basically he ended up owing the firm even more money than he had already committed! And he was not a bad trader at all!

    After doing more research I stumbled across the SEC filing against Tuco trading earlier this year. I had read this before in March when it came out and I didn’t really understand it, but I gave it a second look and I couldn’t believe what I read. All of the questionable tactics mentioned in the findings of fact were being used at the firm where I was working. I was blown away and couldn’t believe I had been so short-sighted. I’m glad that I stopped when I did, cause these firms aren’t getting a single cent out of me.

    I strongly recommend that everyone who is considering a career in trading to read this article - it’s extremely important.

    Here is the link:

    There is no doubt that I have made the correct decision. There is no need to pay to secure leverage at a firm - find a firm that requires no contribution and has a lower payout and that pays you a wage - only then can you ensure that the firm has your best interests at heart.

    To Michael (above): You seem to be doing well and have got yourself a great deal with a reputable company. But for anyone who is considering trading with a Sub LLC - forget about it - IT IS A WASTE OF TIME AND IT IS A SCAM!

  262. 262 Byron

    Thanks for the info, Michael and Sol. Michael, you wouldn’t be willing to share your company’s name, would you? Sounds like a good one.

  263. 263 Iman

    Dear Babak and other traders,

    I have seen a few people asking about firms in the SoCal/Orange County area but did not see any replies yet. Can someone give a shortlist of reputable firms in the OC area or even the top 3 remote firms to work for that will hang the series 7. Seems a lot of firms are shying away from hanging the license for whatever reason.
    I have a valid 3,7,55, and 63
    Thanks in advance,

  264. 264 Ben


    Great decision!! People have to understand that the chance of them getting back their capital contribution is almost ZERO!! The people interviewing at these firms make you think that it is really difficult to get a job with them, when the reality is that almost anyone with or without a degree can become a day trader. They just want your money! At Nexis there were traders making 1000 per day (gross) and I tell you that they all ended up leaving because of the ridiculous fees. You would see that after 6 months all the traders were down about 40k in their accounts…of course Nexis wasn’t losing 40k with each trader; this was just an excuse so that they didn’t have to pay you much more than a lousy 2000 dollar draw after each month…take away taxes and this is like having one 1700 dollar check per month…a really shitty salary!!


    Don’t get too excited man, we all had great months and felt the adrenaline like you.
    I know at least 10 or 15 guys that would gross 20k with the same buying power that you had, but at the end of the year their salary didn’t even sum up to 40k…and these were the absolute best guys. Realize that the market has been extremely good for the past year or more…there is a lot of fear and uncertainty in the economy and the Volatility has been abnormaly great for day traders. In fact, you should be grossing even more money with stocks like GS moving in a 5-10 dollar range in one day…in our days that stock was excellent and it only moved 2 or 3 points max. Also, think that when the market has no volatility and is dead, you will not make more than 2k in one month…trust me, the market is not always as good and as volatile.

    Finally, realize as well that this day trading experience will not look great in your resume for serious types of jobs. This will NOT help you to become a real trader at one of the big firms either. These prop trading firms are only good as an introduction to the stock market. You can learn valuable things that will help you in later in your career. BUT it does NOT pay to start by throwing away your money as a capital contribution. If you want to give this a shot, start with NO money down, and leave when you see that you have learned what you have to learn and realize that these guys only want your money.

  265. 265 Sol


    Thank you for the reassurance. I definitely feel that I made the right decision.

    After reading your last post I went back and read your previous contributions and you seem to be right on the money (excuse the pun) about the treatment of traders by these prop firms.

    Also, your insight about market volatility was also correct. The market has been very volatile in the last 6-9 months, and I think your observation about trading becoming more difficult with lower volumes is correct, and it essentially means that this type of *career* is not sustainable in the long run.

    I’d also like to thank you for addressing one of my other concerns - how trading looks for future jobs. I think you are completely correct in saying that prop trading is NOT a gateway to more lucrative jobs in ibanking, analysis, consulting, or as a senior equity trader at a larger firm. While I had my short stint at my firm (which shall still remain nameless) it really did seem that the traders were there for lack of a better idea, and I’m glad I didn’t spend any more time there than necessary before I figured it all out. I’m an educated guy with a good degree from a good university and I’m just writing my experience off as a bit of a misadventure that lasted for a few weeks - that’s all.

    It really seems to me that the people on this forum who defend day trading are doing so because they have nothing else. Just because they are succeeding doesn’t mean that they can defend the indefensible! This line of work is not kosher by any means and the link that I posted earlier (SEC v. Tuco Trading) is testament to this fact since nearly all prop firms are in violation of the regulations set forth by the SEC. The only reason why the SEC hasn’t put a stop to all of this yet is because it’s knee deep in billions of dollars of mortgage fraud and doesn’t have time to chase up small firms.

    In the end I recommend everyone to use a little bit of common sense. Read what I, and Ben, have both said. Ben is completely right in his earlier statements about prop trading, and I feel that I have confirmed most of these accusations by spending some time with a prop firm.

    If it seems a bit sketchy, it probably is!

    If anyone has any questions I’ll try to answer them as best as I can.


  266. 266 Gary

    Here’s a question -

    I am looking for a remote PROP firm that will allow for OPTION TRADING. This is how I began in the market, have made the most amount of $$, and would prefer to stay. I have interviewed with several groups who mention that they ‘will in the near future’ have option trading but I am holding out for the group who actually does it.
    Thanks again

  267. 267 Mark

    I find it heartening that so any young people are trying to get into trading. One thing that does astound me is the level of bleating and gumption by would-be prop traders. We interview countless 20-25 year olds which we aim to back financially, all profess to a healthy appetite for risk yet none are willing to risk any of their own money. Come on guys, put your money where your mouth is! The reasons always amuse me:

    1. I don’t trust you (but we have to trust you, a nobody, with our money)
    2. I’m not prepared to risk my own money (But you’re happy to throw mine around)

    Then there are the guys who knock the prop shops and this job, there’s usually a common theme to the background whining:

    1 the markets are much harder than x months/years ago (the market is the market, maybe its your trading style which doesn’t work anymore)
    2 all my P&L went in commissions ( you do realise that every time you click that screen it costs money right? Buying and selling at the same price 50 times won’t get you trader of the year. Go set up a retail account and see what your commissions will be like then)
    3 my split is too low (i didn’t realise prop shops should be more charitable and give you their share for using their capital)
    4 there was no training (OK fair cop, some places don’t do much to train you but 90% of the job is learnt the hard way. Senior traders usually do offer advice but they’re only ever going to tell you once. So many youngsters stare into the headlights and never learn from their mistakes.
    5 they “let” me lose money (so when the risk manager tells you to get out and conserve some capital, a really clever thing to do is tell said risk manager that it’s your money and you’ll do what you like with it. kudos)
    6. My limits/buying power/stop loss was too low (So basically if I had let you run that loser into the ground a bit more or let you double up again you would have been up money eventually???)

    To conclude if you don’t like the practices of prop shops, get a job working to rule and enjoy your 2 weeks paid holiday a year. So many want the lifestyle but don’t want to work hard nor take the financial risks to enjoy the privilege of coming and going when you like. If this job were that easy we’d alllllll be doing it.

  268. 268 Roger

    Hi: I’m looking for a firm that trades futures. Any ideas? Been trading for a number of years and have a good record. Thanks!


  269. 269 Gary

    Still looking for a prop firm (remote) that will allow for options trading… Any out there?

    Thanks in advance!

  270. 270 kw

    Just curious as to why you guys need a prop shop for options and futures? There is no 25k requirement like with stocks. To my knowledge, options are not marginable and futures are already highly leveraged as it is. As a remote trader, you wouldn’t be joining for the group dynamic. Without the need for leverage and/or comraderie, what is left? Perhaps there would be slightly lower commissions with a prop group volume discount, but that would easily be eclipsed by a less than 100% payout.

  271. 271 Gary

    Well I guess the reasoning is that options have premiums associated and if the underlying stock jumps .20 in the wrong direction - depending on your stake in the game - that could trigger a false sell (which adds up in fees AND gets you closer to a lockout). Lockouts are if you lose more than 5% of your original contribution in one day. This has happened to me numerously but like one wise-guy said ‘patience grasshopper’ - with options the price doesn’t move ALL the much in relation to the delta and the associated premium triggered by good ol’ fashion supply and demand. So if the stock jumps 5% in wrong direction - there you go - not much movement and enough time to get out of your position without much consequence.

  272. 272 kw

    I guess if you used them in combination with your stock trading it might make sense for protecting a position. I was only thinking of someone wanting to trade them exclusively. Thanks for the clarification.

  273. 273 Roger

    kw, thanks for the reply. I was under the impression (perhaps wrong) that there would be greater leverage as well as funds from the firm once a trader as proven their skill. I presume I am wrong?

  274. 274 kw

    Hi Roger,

    The issue with futures (in my opinion) is how much more margin can you really trade without the risk of ruin being so high that you never have a chance. As you probably know, there are retail brokers that will do $500 margins on the emini contracts. On the ES that is around 140 to 1. That is a ridiculous amount of rope to hang oneself with, even as an experienced trader. Even if you are successful with it, there is not much room to go lower than that with firm capital. I think that is why there are not many futures shops. The only ones I have ever heard of are places where the only way they want you trading is extremely high volume on a micro time frame so as to reduce the firm’s exposure while maximizing their commission revenue. As an experienced trader, you wouldn’t even be able to use your own methods. This is only anecdotal on my part, so perhaps there are other arrangements that I haven’t heard of. I just can’t think of a scenario where it would make sense for both firm and, I mean limited partner.

  275. 275 JB

    Babak what happened to you? I very much miss your market inputs, specially now. Please let us know when you are coming back.

  276. 276 Roger

    kw, thanks again for your reply.
    It’s not about margin, but equity. Right now I use $5K per lot trading the ES. I net about $1000-1500 per day consistently. I take a “salary” every Friday and I build my main account slowly. I thought perhaps a prop firm could increase my capitalization by allowing me to trade their funds for a percentage of the profits. As an private trader, there’s a limit as to how much exposure I want in the market at any one time, regardless how well I am doing on a day-to-day basis.
    I can certainly contribute to a prop firm to get started, but my goal was to trade their capital, in addition to my own.
    Perhaps I was mistaken as to how prop firms work.

  277. 277 pimi

    im 18 and on a gap year in the UK, I intend to go to university next year, I want to become a proffesional trader or an investment banker in the future, i v been trading on online fantasy portofolios since I was 16 and I have become pretty good, I want to gain some more experience in my gap year, what is the best thing for me to do,
    any advice would be appreciated
    thank you

    ps, do proprietary firms take 18 year olds and train them

  278. 278 Guy

    Good info here, thanks to all who have contributed.

    Just wanted to get solid list of shops that have offices in CA. I do know of some,
    but figure someone would be able to add.


  279. 279 halligan

    Mike and Michael who replied on 29 of june and 1st of July please give more info on prop you are talking about.

  280. 280 dabney

    does anyone know of a good firm in the LA area?

  281. 281 John

    Anyone know of Boston prop firms?

  282. 282 Jimbo

    Does anyone have any information about the Angle Group? I had an interview there a couple of weeks ago and I don’t know what to think of them.

    I just sat there and watched them trade, and it didn’t seem to thrilling.

    Any information would be great. Thanks guys.

  283. 283 Byron

    I’m not sure ‘thrilling’ is what you should be looking for in a professional trading environment. Methodical, dispassionate, calculating, and astute, yes, but thrilling implies the kind of emotional decision-making and bias that can get you in trouble and lead to blowups.

  284. 284 mamuka

    Hi everyone, I can really sue some help or advise, so if anyone cad do this I will appreciate it a lot, during a year I traded in, my country (republic of Georgia) Euribor futures, but it’s closed few month ago, I just came to US, right now I’m California, near San Francisco, and I really want to get a job somewhere here with a normal company who will sponsorship me as well, I’m really dedicated and want to learn as much as possible,I’m ready to go through any training,and I can learn quite fast, who will sponsorship me as well, so if any one can help me or have any idea what I can do, will be very thankful.
    Thank you.

  285. 285 Fanny

    Do anybody know about Trade Alpha Corporate Ltd? Is it company under Hold Brother?

  286. 286 Jason

    I am looking into trading with TCA Markets. Does anybody have any information that you feel that I should know about them before jumping in? thanx a bunch.

  287. 287 mike

    Hey there all,

    When they say zero capital contribution, does that include the technology and trading equipment as well? Do companies also teach people from a different state while that person is at home?

  288. 288 JB

    Babak, You were right on POT. Sure miss your comments.

  289. 289 mark mendoza

    has anyone looked into this list of prop firms? ive got my eye on and asent and valdez captial — ive got some buddies in each and have been hearing good things about was wondering if anyone has had any first had experience with any of the above mentioned. i travel alot so remote trading is a must

  290. 290 John

    Anyone on here work for Marex in London? Also do they have an office in Chicago anymore, or did they shut that down when Refco was closed?

  291. 291 JB

    Babak are you back or is this coment on real estate is someone else?

  292. 292 JB

    Babak welcome back.

  293. 293 gman

    hey Ronnie,
    I work at that office. Its good
    You can look them up at the website and give them a call

  294. 294 Ronnie

    Cheers Gman,

    Whats your email? I would mind asking you a few more questions.

  295. 295 Manny

    Is this a list of the prop trading firms in Chicago?

  296. 296 Babak

    Thanks JB :)

    Manny, there are certainly firms with offices in Chicago. I’m working on a way to make the database more granular so things like location are easier to filter.

  297. 297 gman
  298. 298 Ams


    Grear Blog!

    I would really appreciate it if anyone could let me know of any trading arcades you are aware of in the toronto region?

    If there are any what is the set up? Do they provide the funds? Or, do you have to back yourself?

  299. 299 Alexander

    hi Babak, great forum! Could you advice me on remote prop shop with 0 start capital?

  300. 300 louis

    i clicked on the link for nexis capital, the website was up a few months ago, is there and updated web address? are they located in new york?

  301. 301 Albert

    HELLO, I need help . I was offer a Job at NEXIS in new york. I had to give them
    5K for the training which is going to take like 2 moths. They offer 85% comission
    and 15% for them. I am not an experienced trader. I have trade on my own but nothing serious. I really appreciate an opinion the as soon as possible. I am very confused. Should I
    go with them or not? For me it is really a big effort to give them 5k and I am confused
    wether I wil generate some money in three months. PLEASE HELP…

  302. 302 MB


    If 5,000 is a lot, do not risk it. Attempt to find a firm that requires no initial contribution. If your new, your also going to get burned, so be patient.

  303. 303 Babak

    Albert, first of all, what exactly does the training entail? who will be teaching you? what will they be teaching you? There are many prop firms which offer training but do not charge for it. What you need to figure out is if NEXIS’ training is worth $5000? or are you referring to the $5000 as the deposit/contribution to open an account with them?
    re the 85/15 I think you mean to say that this is the way trading profits will be shared but that is not the “commission”. what is the commission? any other fees? desk fee? data? etc.?
    It sounds like you need to get some more basic facts and figure out what is what. Either that or you haven’t clearly stated the situation in your message.

  304. 304 Albert

    Thanks MB and Babak for your response. They ask for 5K for training. Which he said will
    around 8 weeks. The teachers of this program wil be a guy that has 25 years experienced
    in trading and worked for some big financial institutions. Yes the sharing profit is
    85%/15%. I heard a lot of negative things for NEXIS in here. I just can not afford to loose
    money and I want to make a clever decision. There is no desk fee. If I need a special
    program I have to pay it each month around $97 per month. For me 5k is alot of money
    and I cant loose money. What is your personal opinion?

    Thanks for your patience,


  305. 305 Babak

    did you look at what else is out there? talk to other prop firms? compare the deals? why have you narrowed it down to Nexis?

  306. 306 Ben

    Albert, my man. There are many posts about nexxis on this forum. Clearly, you didn’t see them so I will summarize for you. DO NOT put your 5000k !!!!! PLEASE, let me do you this big favor. You will never see them again…NEVER!!! These guys have a decent training but they also encourage you to trade a lot…guess why??…because they’ll charge you such high commissions that you’ll start digging your own hole…and this is so at the end of each month, your NET will be negative even if you gross a lot of money. Forget about the 85% bull@S%it…you’ll never get 85% because the guys will be telling you that you owe them about 30K after 4months…and this is because they will charge 10 dollars per 1000 shares. Trust me…these guys are professional actors. In my class of about 30 guys, about 15 put down money and ZERO got anything back…including me!! Do yourself a favor and if you want to trade for one of this firms, then look for one with NO capital contribution. By the way, I think Nexxis is called now T3. anyway, same guys with the same old story. DON’T TRUST THEM. they give some really nice speeches to entice you.

  307. 307 B4banko

    I have spent the last 3 days going through the list provided above. I have read the entire blog. I am a self taught trader 3 1/2 years. If you are currently working for one of these firms I would like to know. I have the desire & need to find a reputable firm. From what I understand Canadian firms bypass the licensing process. I have a family to support & I am too old to chase carrots. Please contact me if you can provide insightful firsthand information that will trim the learning curve. Thank You.

  308. 308 robber

    whats the deal with first new york securities? anyone worked there?

  309. 309 Shane

    Hello -

    So Ben - are you saying that T3 is not a good firm them? I am confused. There are subscription fees to joining T3 and it seems as if people are successful.

  310. 310 Albert

    Hi, I need to know if someone knows a proprietary trading shop in New York City,
    that I dont have to give any Money to join and also that you can recommend that its

    Thank You.

  311. 311 J

    Has anyone heard of Xerxes Trading, located in Morristown, NJ? They are associated with Hold Brothers. They want a 5k cap contribution, claim to have about 15 traders, and they say they have “end of the day mentoring”…. not sure what to make of them, I would love to hear any feedback. Thanks.

  312. 312 B4banko


    I have yet to see a response to a question like yours. I am looking for one who does not want your money. I see no need to give them mine when I can trade at a 10-1 margin to start with out the Series 7. I have an account & trade my personal funds with these guys.
    Let me know if you come by one.

  313. 313 B4banko

    Did they require your series 7 & a deposit?

  314. 314 J

    I noticed a previous post about the angle group…. do they actually require a
    $3k payment in order to start training? Has anyone gotten a job with them? Any idea of how competitive the application process is? Thanks again.

  315. 315 pimi

    i made £63000 today hoorray, just orderd a new ferrari

  316. 316 Dee

    Is there a company/firm to whom you can offer a winning strategy that would assess it, trade it and give you a percentage? (Collective2 is not what I have in mind.)

    I cannot trade it through retail for reasons of size and access to financial instruments.


  317. 317 Trader


    What do you trade?

  318. 318 B4banko


    Yes. You will have to go through the list provided above. I recall reading specifically a firm who stated that they will. I can’t remember who it was, I think it is in the first half of the list.

  319. 319 Jason

    I need help! I had the trading experience on my personal account and I want to be a prop trader. But to be honest, I want to get into the large companies like hedge funds which provides the prop trader the salary and bonus. Do you know what is the best way to get into hedge fund? I am not from Ivey colleges but I do have confidence in my trading. Suppose I get into this kind of prop trading firms first, do a great job and have a great trading record, then I apply for those real prop trader positions in hedge fund, will it work?? Many thanks.

  320. 320 BL

    Hey everyone, after reading through this whole post, it’s been real eye-opening. I’m in contact with a relatively unknown prop shop (it’s not on the list) and I’m considering an interview with them. Here’s what they told me so far:
    -There’s a profit split with no personal capital contribution or desk fees
    -I will have to pay a couple grand for the training program and the training is “continuous” (ie. hands on training as you trade compared to training first then trade)
    -No Series 7 required
    -Didn’t mention commission per share or trade (can someone clarify that as I’m not familiar with it)
    -Some kind of special box technology (what is that?)
    -Will be able to begin trading immediately

    As for myself I’m a recent undergrad with a major in finance (talk about timing) Did some paper trading of equities for one class. In another class, traded currencies, options & futures using simulators and did fairly well. But I don’t even have the money to pay for this training. What do guys think?

  321. 321 J

    Hi, just as a heads up, I’ve interviewed around in NY prop firms and I have yet to meet anyone making more than a few hundred dollars per month. Everyone has sidejobs as bartenders and waiters… not a glorious life… MANY people have been doing this for two years and have yet to pay the rent from it. Anyone who’s heard differently, I’d love to know your experience.

  322. 322 Michael

    Hey all,
    Its me, the same Michael that posted about 6 months ago about the amount of negativity on this board towards day trading. I never responded about the firm I worked for because i didnt want it getting back to others at the firm. So I was working at Chimera since last November. Last friday I was “fired” or “laid off”, after a serious disagreement with one of the partners. explanation not necessary, but Chimera is a great firm for a starting trader. They do not do extensive training, it is really about experience. They have offices in LA boston and NY and are subs of Assent. Assent in my opinion has the best trading platform (anvil) and that really is a big part of it. So anyways since I last posted,

    I have been putting up sick numbers (for my size and experience) and have been able to save upwards of 20+k and pay off all my debts all from September trading. Now my question is as follows. In order to be a “customer” of assent, I need a minimum of 30 K and my noncompete does not allow me to trade within 60 miles of boston (though noncompetes arent worth the paper they are printed on). Assent has a number of subs, and im planning to move to florida and try to work up enough to get started.

    I realize that there are firms that will give you 100 percent with low commissions out there, but I do not have a series seven, and ANVIL is a GREAT trading platform.

    I know theres a ton of opportunity out there for someone in my position, A proven trading track record (54k sep though I keep about 25% after taxes). During october I have taken a shot at trading options on my ameritrade account and have been extremely profitable, its probably just luck though.

    So my question is this. Should I stick to equities or is there more money in futures, currencies, options etc.?

    Does anyone know any trading platforms that are very good and rival Assent’s Anvil?

    Any opportunity for commissions LESS then 4$ per thousand shares (what I was paying).

    Also can I collect unemployment while trading prop? as a customer?

    Any ideas are very much appreciated, and specific firms would be a huge help…

    Willing to move, change company, security, remote or office… etc. Theres a world of potential and i dont want to miss it… what do you guys think?

  323. 323 Re

    Micheal , if you got 30K why not trade for your self using lightspeed or something..
    You want to be a “customer” of assent , and need an LLC to become a sub..

    Maybe I can help…

  324. 324 B4banko

    If you have your own cash I see no advantage in using a prop shop. I don’t know why anyone would give them their money & have it tied up for a year. & that is if they don’t decide to pop some sort of fee on you to get out of refunding it. I would only trade for one who is going to take you on with no deposit. They want to lure you under the pretense of low commissions? Add in the % they take & you will find commissions are less if you just pay it. I use a private capitol firm. I place my money in the account. I receive 10-1 margin to start. They will step it up under periodic reviews. You can trade equities as well as options. Options are at a lower margin rate. They charge 1.5% monthly or 18% anum on margin used. A minimum of $150 a month. An account requires a minimum of $2,500 to open. You pay for your platform. You can choose between Real Tick, Trading Screen or InstaQuote. You can choose a fee schedule per ticket or per share. Per share will vary depending on the route you choose as well as whether or not you are adding or depleting liquidity. If you are adding no fee. You can request your earnings be wired to you at any time & have it with in two days or less. Or any amount you have in the account. If you let the balance fall below $2,000 you have to add funds to bring it back up to $2,500 in order to trade. If you fall below $1,500 intra day they will liquidate positions to protect their exposure. You can hold 4 times BP over night. If you can get past the psychological dependence of using Anvil this may be a good route for you to consider. Remember Anvil doesn’t pull the trigger you do. If you have enough cash to fund an account I don’t think you are eligible for unemployment. Those benefits are designed for people who need it. If it is abused it may not be there one day for the people who really need it. It is an ethical issue you have to decide upon. For me when it comes to trading I have become a firm believer in karma. I don’t do anything that can interfere with being in the zone. If you are looking for trading futures I like AMP Trading. You can get Day Trading ES contracts for $400 per contract margin requirement. Ninja Trader Zen Fire platform is excellent. You can also trade options as well. You can make a lot of money fast trading futures & options but you will also loose it even faster. If you are trying to build a foundation to support your career as a professional trader I would NOT swing for the fences by jumping into options & futures. You will blow up your account. I did it three times before I figured it out. Take it slow & steady with base hits every day. Trade the etf’s they most likely will not be halted & offer more stability in building a base. When using high leverage all you need is to pull out of the market 1-2 percent a day consistently. Set your daily goal & walk away when you reach it. Over trade & your batting average will go down. Once you have a foundation beneath you then branch off slowly into futures & options. Approach it the same way & build a good base for this division of your business. When doing something it is better to be excellent at one thing then just good at many. You do not need a series 7 for any of the things I have spoke of.
    Who I use for stocks & options.
    Futures & Forex
    This guy you can get a free trial to his nightly video on individual issues. Momentum trading. Very good. He may extend the service free if you are strapped for cash. He will also talk with you on phone to help you.
    This guy does a lot of options trading & is good & free.
    This guy does a nightly video on ES & other misc. instruments. To get the access to videos it is a small donation for a years worth. (gold status) Many threads that are great places to learn.
    This is great charting software to download free. If you IM the support dept & ask a few questions ie watch lists, paper money etc. & work your way into telling them you are funding an account with in the next few days & ask if it would be possible to take the delay off they will.
    They have frequent options & tools webinars in addition to access to archived past presentations.
    This guy is good for FAST paced day trading. Has a intra day update recording.
    Hope this helps. If you find someplace that will let you trade remote w/ no series 7 & no deposit let me know. I would be interested. I am always eager to increase my earnings potential. I have had no luck. I suspect the business model is designed to make their money off your deposit. Starts & stops right there. It is interesting that your relationship ended when you became profitable. That is not supposed to happen.

  325. 325 Leah

    B4Banko - YOU seriously rock. Best post on here so far.

  326. 326 B4banko

    Thank You. I have poured my heart & soul into becoming a successful trader. It is not easy. It is the single most difficult challenge I have encountered as a career choice. I have been in numerous burning buildings, pulled mangled bodies from cars, dug ditches in 120 degree heat & built 10,000 sq.’ homes. None of those things is remotely as difficult as trading. If only I could have read a post like that & LISTENED & learned when I was starting out I would have had avoided many unpleasant experiences & would have a whole lot more money in my pocket today. This is a good book to read. Mastering The Trade by John Carter.

  327. 327 Michael

    You are the f’in man. That was the single most comprehensive and efficient list of reliable resources. Since I dont want to branch out into other securities until I have a good base going, I decided to stick with equities.

    I spoke with the guy from worldtrading, and the operation sounds legit. I think I am going to get involved with him.

    At this point i’m considering: worldwide trading capital, cy group, sterling, flatiron trading, and assent. And in that regard you’re totally right, I have been at it for only a year and it shouldnt be such a hurtle to overcome mastering a differently platform then anvil, especially when it opens so many doors for better deals.

    I really appreciate the time you took to answer my questions.

    I too believe in trading karma. I would wish you the best, but its going to come your way whether I wish it or not, thus is the way of the world.


  328. 328 B4banko

    Don’t forget, if you find a no down prop shop let me know. Good to know it was useful.

  329. 329 Aki

    Hi Babak,

    My equity is from up $20,000 to minus $50,000 in the rough Oct..I lost confident totally on U.S.stocks.I don’t agree that the gov. get into the market.I hope I can find somewhere to trade LSE now.Coud you help to introduce some?


  330. 330 Dave

    Does anybody know anything about SMB Capital, LLC? Thanks.

  331. 331 Babak

    Michael, congrats! it is always awesome to hear of traders success. re platform, I’ve heard good things re laser. and for cheaper rates, you can always negotiate something lower, try the prop subforum at elitetrader

  332. 332 Fernando

    Hey Everybody i found this post while i was browsing by some trading firms, and i have to say its awesome.

    First let me introduce my self. I been trading for a year now with Star Alliance Capital One. And i have to say that most of the stuff you guys write about this business is true. This business is hard and is not for everybody.

    I first started in October of 2007. I came with a group of about 15 people. And out of the 15 people only I am left. I started with $5,000 and i got 20-1 levarage(hence i got 100,000.00 of buying power). With a risk management in place. I was able to trade a max of 300 shares and able to hold 3 positions any time(so the most at any given time i had was 900 shares). But even with that risk management i lost my money in the first 3 months.

    After that i was ask to bring another $5,000 if i wanted to continue trading, and i did and i lost that too. At this time I was mad, but i felt like my trading skills had improved a lot but i had to manage better my losses.

    The third time it seem to had turn around and like they say third time is the charm. I was finnally able to get it right with my next $5,000. and it was this point of my trading career that i was able to see clearly what i had been doing wrong all this time and what most people fail to see. And i will discuss that in the next 3 bullets

    1. You have to loose to be able to learn. When i first came here i came with the mentality of making fast money. But that’s the first mistake i did and a lot of people do when they start this business. This business is like going to school. You have to study and learn. and when you go to school you have to pay to learn a carrear. Likewise in Day trading. You learn how to trade with the money you put in (loose). And this “Tuition” is what will teach the trading mechanism of wall street and the emotions and psychological effort it take to do this. It will help you decide if you like this field and weather you will continue or move on to another career.

    2. There is no holy grial: Black boxes, indicators, analyst and all that fancy technical analysis are worthless in Day trading. They might work for a little bit of time, but most of the other time they will be wrong, or too late. I tried all this during my first months. Stochastic Oscilator, RSI, Bollinger Bands, listening to CNBC Jim Cramer and all those guys in there, but it did nothing but genarate some wins and big loss.

    3. I had wrong ratios. I would get in a trade risking and loosing 10 cents, to make the next trade a 10 cent winner. This generated little and never gave me any good profits.

    So at my one year of trading i have learn a lot and what a lot of people fail to see. This is not a fast get rich quick scheme. It takes time. Some might take them a couple of month, some a year and some even more. But this business its what you make out of it.

    The only thing that works in this businss is these 3 little thing. And these 3 little things are the traders secreat and what many do not understands.
    1. Support and Resistance.
    2. Cut your looses.
    3. Discipline
    These are the only thing that works in this business. It’s what helps you stay alive in this business, and it’s what helps you make money in this business.

    Sure it looks so simple and easy, but thats all you really need. It takes time, it took me close to about a year to learn from all my suferring, but it was worth it. Now I am able to make easily 500 or more a day. And usually i make this in the first hour of trading. So by 11 am I am done with some money in my pocket that takes people working for a corporation to make in 2 or 3 days.

    So do you loose money? hell yeah. But is it worth it? hell yeah.

    Any questions guys you can write to me at my e-mail:
    I can discuss more about my experience, my trading strategy, and what ever you like.

    Have a good day,

  333. 333 Byron

    B4Banko and Fernando, thanks for the excellent information, much appreciated! I also /second A collection of some of the most savy and thoughtful traders & investors you can possibly find in the public domain.

  334. 334 Dave

    Does anybody know anything about SMB Capital or have any experiences to share?

  335. 335 Benoit Desjardins


    Do you have anything in Poland?

  336. 336 Babak

    Dave, the most recent edition of Bloomberg magazine has a short article about them. The founders are Steve Spencer and Mike Bellafire, both 37. The firm gets the name from their initials. They used to trade at Heartland before striking out on their own.
    The firm started in 2006 with 4 traders. They use Lightspeed and have a manual which is 20 pages long and 7500 words. They were also featured in Wall St. Warriors.

  337. 337 Fernando

    I had a lot of people writing to me and asking me question about support and resistance, cutting looses, ratios, and discipline. So i wanted to make a note about support and resistance in this post.

    Support and resistance…it’s where it holds…it can be the digit, previous days highs, low, open, close, or just about anywhere.

    I use previous day’s highs, lows, close, and open. These 4 tend to act as support and resistance a lot.

    Once I have these previous days support and resistance, I want to see how they react to it. You can short right at the pivot point if you’re a risky trader, but I recommend averaging in around the pivot point or just wait and see how it reacts till you like what you see. For me, I might see the market come to a pivot point, break the pivot point and then come down to the pivot point. It will start to hold and not make a new high. Once I see the market not making a new high and moving below the pivot point I will consider shorting my stock. When I do this I have to see where my stock is at. Is at a previous day high, low, open, or close? If it’s at any of these pivot point then it’s great. I will try to short around the pivot point and risk to loose a bit more then the high. To illustrate, if the stock made a high of 24.67 and it’s holding at its previous day open of 24.59 I will short around the pivot point, and risk to loose if it breaks the high. This works great in conjunction with the market.

    Besides the previous days high, low, open, close you can also use the digit and half digit as support and resistance. If a stock is rallying it might take a break close to the digit. For example, if a stock started to rally around 42.20 it might take hold when it reaches 43. Why is that? Because people who bought at the bottom will use the digit as a point to get in and out of a trade, weather it is to take a profit/lose or initiate a position. So you as a day trader want to benefit from this move, weather it’s a 30 cent move or more. If you like shorting you want to see how the stock holds and reacts when it gets to the digit. If it does not brakes digit and start to hold around there, then it might be a good time to short. But if you short around 42.90’s and it breaks the high (lets just put a high of 42.97), you can either hold for a couple more cents to see how it reacts or get out. Because a stock sometimes will try to shake you out. They would do that by spiking it up above the resistance and bringing it down.

    There are more support and resistance that you can find. All you have to do is look at the previous day of the stock you’re trading and look at the points where the stock holds for a while. Draw them to today and see how the stock reacts when it comes to that point. (They key here is to see how it reacts to that support or resistance)

    Of course it does not work all the time, and that’s when discipline comes in, and cutting those loses fast. You have to remember that if you are loosing more then your average loss is best to get out, because you can always get back in.

    Being a trader takes time. It took me a couple of month to perfect this technique. But you choose what technique you like the best, a momentum, trend, scalper, reversal trader or whatever. Stick to what best works for you, stick to your discipline and take it easy.


  338. 338 Miguel

    Great post on support and resistance. One thing I think you didnt stress enough.
    Don’t fall in love with the play. Just because a play may have much more upside then downside, doesnt mean it has any better chance of following through.
    How I get into my breakout.
    1. Establish 1/4 position at pivot point, usually whole number or half/quarter in my opinion work best…
    2.If there is a break scoop up another 1/2 full position,
    if it doesnt, get out of your small position fast (5 or 10 cents).
    3. If it continues to follow through, stay nimble moving in and out with your last 1/4 position… Always taking profit. However if the stock moves against you past your average price get out of half, if it goes another 5 or 10 cents, depending on stock.
    Never become too committed to a stock that the liquidity does not support, and be quick to admit when you are wrong, because overall using this strategy there is a market edge, and you can exploit it by sizing in as it goes in your favor.
    If you use proper position management you will be profitable, however since this is a high intensity trading strategy, minimal commission structure is necessary.
    I’m going a step further at this point and using options as a way to leverage using pivot points on an intraday basis. Going well so far!

    Good luck everyone,

  339. 339 Fernando

    Nice tactic. I see some guys using that technique as well in my office.

    And options is great. I started doing them last week.

    I think another technique is to do the opposite of what CNBC is doing. lol.

    I remember when i started trading, Fast Money was saying to buy Las Vegas Sand. People bought it at the top…and look where is at. I don’t know how can those people be called professionals and still be there…oh and don’t forget Cramer calling market bottom at 10,000 a couple of months ago…

    Read some good books instead of relying on other people to do your job. These 2 books are my favorites: Reminiscences of a Stock Operator by Edwin Lefèvre and Japanese Candlestick Charting Techniques by Steve Nison. They are the best I ever read. If anybody has good books like this let me know so i can read some.

  340. 340 William

    “Timing the Trade” - Tom O’Brien. You being a pro daytrader, this might be too basic.

    He is a day-trader
    One-way ticket yeah
    It took him nooo time…
    To get out…he got out

    (My writing hobbies are poetry and lyric revision to fit the moment!)

  341. 341 Fernando

    Thanks bro, I’ll check it out. But still to my best knowledge, Reminiscences of a Stock Operator by Edwin Lefèvre is the best book on stock market out there and no trader should be with out it…until i find something better! :)

    Jesse Livermore is one of the greatest traders i ever heard of, and his main rules where the simple ones i told you guys: Support and Resistance, Cut your Losses, and Discipline.

  342. 342 William

    I’ve never heard of those guys. Are they all day traders? I’m not in that realm at all.
    I trade with my mentor Phil Grande. His prop software, X-1 and X2, are so simple for swing and position traders to use. And its all about S and R, Vol and slo stoch. These indicators are directly tied to institutional money movement. I notice the S and R prices don’t exactly match fib ratios, but most always have less than $1 variance.

    In class, in this day trader’s market, of course, he uses a 15min chart and bollinger bands to exact buy and sell points. I just look over his shoulder. I don’t have a margin acct yet, so I can’t short the market. But, I participate in the long trades….and options. I’m pretty much a rookie. I’m glad to find this “coffee shop” and hang out with you guys. I’d never heard of prop trading before. Don’t think I’d enjoy being in a barn with 100 stations. Like…do you have hotties walking by every now and then to feel your humanity? (grin).

  343. 343 Fernando

    Oh and I wanted to add one last thing. Know that you guys know about support and resistance use it. For the stock, for the market and for what ever you are trading.
    You will come to your own conclusions and most of the time will be right. You will no longer have to rely on all those anal-list at CNBC telling you a bunch of BS. i.e: they are calling market bottom at 8000…

    Look up a monthly chart of the Dow Jones, and you will see that there is support all the way around the 7000-7400 level. There is more of a likely chance that market is trying to push to those levels to test that support.

    For me I been shorting my ass of on as many stocks I can, and bought a bunch of puts after elections day because I did not buy that fake rally. And I’ll be shorting all the way till 7400 (if it gets there :) ). I want that level! I want to see how market reacts when it gets to that level before I start buying anything in my portfolio.

    Always remember that the key is to see how the market reacts to a support or resistance. You can do that by throwing in shares and testing that lvl, or just wait and see.

  344. 344 spamula

    Guys I;m looking for and a firm to provide me with 20.1 buying power and low price comissions around 0.003-0.005 does anyone know someone with a good rep who can help me?

  345. 345 Matt D


    We trade in-house here with Flat Iron trading, everyone pretty much gets a .0025/90% payout. You can give them a shot, believe their site is, best of luck.

  346. 346 spamula

    Matt how much for the software did they quote, thinking of going there or cygroup but
    cygroup favorite. 98%, 0.005 to start going down to 0.003 providu do so much trading

  347. 347 Fernando

    Yes market is getting to the level i want (7400)! If it goes like i have talk about, today might be the bottom…

    I’ll cover all my shorts today today and maybe go long…depending how the market reacts when it gets to those levels today!

    Like I said do your own analysis and most of the time you will be right, while the “so called” professionals at CNBC will be wrong!

  348. 348 Fernando

    follow up on my post! Yes the market got to my level i wanted today..cover all my positions and went long. and bought a couple of calls! I’m still kinda not sure about this bottom set today…it might be for a couple of weeks, cause there is still more bad news to come, so this long and rally might be till 10,000. after that if it gets there i will see how it holds!

    But this market is all about levels. It got to the level i wanted and hold there…but still i say this play is short term cause there is more bad news to come out (hence market can come lower then today)!

  349. 349 B4banko

    Nice job on your trading. Do you think you could post your trades in real time verses stating it after the fact? I think many would find that helpful.

  350. 350 Fernando

    ok will try my best to do it..its very hard to write when you see something in the market! When you see it you have to be fast, to get the best price you can!

    I’m no market Guru like CNBC (if you buy their BS) but I’m just trying to tell people that is best if you learn how to read a chart, instead of relying on other people. I’m just giving you my feels for the market and the trades i done (I put my money where my mouth is).

    But still we will have to see how the market reacts the next few days… We still have to deal with Credit Cards problem, and inflation…so there is more of likely chance that market will come down again after it has rally for a couple of days.

    And if you want real time you going to have to come to my firm! :)

  351. 351 B4banko

    Fish On!!!

  352. 352 MQ

    Hi guys

    Can you help me with two questions please?

    1. I’m looking to get into trading but wonder if my age will work against me. I am 31 years old now and currently working as a Financial Adviser in the City (London). So I have a lot of experience with investments and markets but not as a trader, although obvisouly I look at the markets a lot and spreadbet.

    I never thought I was the right personality type to become a trader (and the careers adviser at university advised me against a career in trading which I stupidly took) however I have recently become friends with a trader who works for Marex and he has changed my opinion totally.

    2. If it is possible for me, where what type of firm would you suggest to contact? I would ask my friend but he is quite stressed at the moment so not good timing!

    Thank you


  353. 353 Fernando

    Your an analist? If you are you will find it hard to comprehend cause you have that same mentality of those at CNBC. If you want to try it, you have to forget about everything you know! Yes forget everything you know because it does not helps in Day Trading!

    You will start from scratch and take it from there. Since i Don’t BS i tell you the truth like it is. When you start there is 95% chance that you will loose the money you put in. You have to learn how to trade, so this money will be you small “investment” to learn how to. All you really need is 5,000. Control that money and don’t get out of hand by trying to be a big guy and doing a lot of shares. Start small and take it easy.

    Read some books on your journey. Some good books to read: Reminiscences of a Stock Operator by Edwin Lefèvre and Japanese Candlestick Charting Techniques by Steve Nison.

  354. 354 Fernando

    oh and read one of my post starting from Nov 4th, 2008 and see if that helps you figure out if you like this or not!

    Let me know how it goes!

  355. 355 MQ

    Hi Fernando

    Thank you for your reply.

    Do you think age is important because I have heard from some people that many traders burn out by their early thirties?


  356. 356 Fernando

    uhmmm that depends…Do you have a family? If you do, having family and starting this is very hard, because you will not be making any money at the beginning!
    Also because of age, you might be a bit more naive in the learning process….because you went to this college, you feel this is ridiculous, or you work at such a firm and that is unacceptable. Stuff like that.

    Another issue by a lot of people is salary. We don’t work for nobody, but ourselves. Making this our business, where we don’t expect t a weekly salary, but working for our own money. You don’t have somebody telling you what to do. Nobody tells you to press the button but you, making it more complicated for people who are use to be told what to do..they want “structure”.

    But if you are able to look past all this stuff and start like a young teenager that does not know nothing then you will start good…I have to say when i started i did not know nothing. Absolutely nothing….at the interview they asked me what made stocks go up or down and i said exports and imports…how pitiful of myself. lol. But that is just one example of how little you have to know, to start this business. You will learn as you start!

    And we do have an analyst amongst our ranks…he was a brokerage for 12 years (analyst, brokerage..they are all the same). When he started he lost money just like all of us. Took him close to a year to be able to understand this a bit, and start making money. I asked him if it was easier for him because he was a brokerage? and he said no. He said Day trading is a whole different ball game. Nothing of what he used as brokerage really helped him out.

    So my friend, the journey is tough, but if you like the stock market, and are able to understand this after a while, the possibility are endless. But if you like working for the man, then this business is not for you.

  357. 357 proptrader

    Age can definitely be an issue. Most of the guys I see becoming successful are under thirty.

  358. 358 StevenK

    I would like to say something constructive about this world of Prop trading firms….If there are levels to entering the world as traders then Prop trading would be at the bottom. So while going to work for goldman might be at the top most will never have that opportunity. Becoming a professional trader is a great job and ranks with being a heart surgeon or brain surgeon and whether you have a retail account or a prop trading account it won’t matter. Because the odds of becoming a professional trader are only a little better than becoming a heart surgeon or brain surgeon. But if the only way you can get on board is to spend years at several trading firms losing to learn then so be it. As long as you know the odds are against you. I remember in the 80’s when we had to make money paying 300 dollar commissions. So all the talk of fees and commissions is hysterical. Commissions are basically free in my mind. I wish that I had had an offer from Goldman in 2000 and retired in 2006 (missing Goldmans recent demise) but I didn’t . So I have spent the cost of a private education at a four year University to get to where I am today. Not a Brain or Heart surgeon but I will make more money longer without all of the malpractice….So to all you your turks (what I was when I started in 1981) theres no free lunch. You will pay for your education Life is a risk. Just remember trading is a learned skill which most anyone can learn. It is no different than being a pilot or surgeon or computer programmer both in time to get to the top and cost. The great thing about trading is that anyone can have there shot if they want it….What few can do pays very very well.

  359. 359 donnys12

    desperately looking to trade. I have traded my own brokerage account for about 7 years with no real success. I recently took a one on one course witha CBOT veteran who teaches privately. I want to trade at a firm full time, but am 38 and don’t know if any firm would give me a shot. I am committed to learning their ways and patient enough to know I wont be successful right away. can anyone put me in the right direction for a chicago firm to talk to?

  360. 360 B4banko


    Go through the list above & contact the ones who appeal to you. If you have your own cash that is all it takes. They don’t care how old, male, female, white, black or purple. They want your money & if you make it you do & if you don’t it was your nickel. I understand the prop trading business model to be a thing of the past. Due to deleveraging & credit lines being pulled. If you just learned a new methodology from a vet why do you need a firm? No money? You state you want to learn the ways of even another firm. After 7 years you should realize that the holy grail you are searching for does not exist. This is the “holy grail”, consistency. Trade a methodology consistently & you will make money. Bounce around for 7 years & you will loose money. There are many ways to make money & one way to loose. Unless you are consistently inconsistent. Then you have found the holy grail, just the wrong one. If you want leverage set up a personal account with, you can get 10-1. That is all you need to earn a respectable living.

  361. 361 Fernando

    Nice reply StevenK, and thanks for the website B4banko…
    Although i never asked for what i originally came here for…

    I was looking for a firm with lower commissions…yes StvenK commissions come a long way from your time, but still we are always looking for a better deal! :)

    My firm for Day trading gives a 20 to 1 leverage (For overnight positions you get a 4-1) charging you 80 cents per 100 shares and you are able to keep all your profits (They charge $2 per contract for options). They just take their commissions and what ever other fees you have to pay to the SEC and stuff like that. If you trade more then 10,000 a day then your commission can go lower to 60 cents, and lower as you trade more. They will also charge you $30 a month if you use their chats (I use esignal so i don’t pay for this) and another $30 if you want to be able to see ARCA quotes. Besides that if you want to trade remote you have to pay $75 a month.

    Now knowing whats the average i pay for my services i wanted to check my options with another firm. Lately i been remote a lot, so I want to look for a firm with a good remote system and with a good execution system. Last the firm must be able to let me keeps all my profit. It does not matter to me if a firm charges low commission but they take a certain percentage of my profits.

    So if anybody knows of anything good out there let me know. If not i guess this is the best for know.

  362. 362 StevenK

    Fernanco,,,,are you making a million a year???If not then you need to spend as much time on your craft than looking for lower commissions….I trade at tradestation (retail) and at VCM….Both are a dissappointment to some degree. Just as there is no edge that lasts forever somebody will have a better deal unfortunately it will take you 6 months to fiure it out…and then they will go bankrupt because each firm has to make a living…However you have yet to post which firm you trade with so the rest of us can compare…Are you a principal at this firm looking for recuits???


  363. 363 B4banko

    Fish on! They start dropping the hooks Friday afternoon & goes through the weekend. The place I use will give 20-1 after you prove your ability to handle the leverage. Every 2 weeks they evaluate you upon request & they will bump it up slowly.

  364. 364 StevenK


    did I address my comment to the wrong person…I am truly interested in the firm you are using….I still believe that most will go broke but it sounds like you have a good deal…Is there a reason you won’t share the name?

  365. 365 B4banko

    This is who I use. A private capitol group is who they set my account up with, Schiller LLC, but you have to go through World Wide Trading Capitol. NWT Financial is the Broker Dealer. You trade your money, they fund the margin @ 1.5% monthly or 18% anum. There is a variety of fee structures you can chose from. As well as negotiating a deal based upon volume. You keep your profit. I calculated some of the fee structures on other firms & found that it is less expensive for me to trade this way. Particularly if you trade a more expensive stock FSLR for example. You trade fewer shares with your buying power than if you were trading the same dollar amount of XLF. Fees don’t really dictate my decision on what I trade. I would rather focus on being profitable. Fees are just the whip cream. I have no problem admitting that I have my days that it is straight whip cream on dog shit. If you don’t you are lying. I have no interest in these companies I just have a few accounts with them. I would trade with a prop firm if they put up the money, I have yet to encounter one who does.

  366. 366 StevenK


    Thank you that is very helpful I will check them out…This may be a stupid question but do you pay that interest on intraday trades or just on trades you hold overnight?

  367. 367 B4banko

    Intraday, I don’t think overnight applies because the buying power drops to 4-1 overnight. The next trading day it bumps back up so it is calced by the higher #. They give 4-1 on options intraday as well.

  368. 368 ty

    anyone know of any firms that have API’s that can hook up directly to tradestation? I have automated systems coded in tradestation and would love to trade them at a prop for the leverage. Are there any places that you dont have to put up any capital to start? That seems a little strange to me. Also, are there any that give you more line. Say I put up 5k and show some signs of doing well but then have a bad run and blow throughthe 5k. Will they allow me to keep trading or will they stop me and make me fund again right away?
    If anyone can knows the best places for the above ? let me know.

  369. 369 Fernando

    Yeah sorry i forgot to put down the website of the firm i use:

    They are under

    I just wanted to compare prices with other firms….since I’m planning to Day Trade from another country i wanted to make sure i had a good package…but looking from what you guys are talking about it seems i have a good one. So i guess no need to look any more.

    Alright guys thanks for the help.

  370. 370 Gordon Gekko

    Out of all these prop firms, would you say the top 3 that offer a salary and provide training are:

    1) Jane street
    2) SIG
    3) DRW

  371. 371 Yiyun


    Thank you for the list. Maybe, you should add Saen options on the list.
    They are market makers based in Amsterdam.

    Thank you

  372. 372 mark mendoza

    ending up joining with rates are good for volume traders, good benefits and easy cash withdrawls

    very fast platform via laser

    support is good/fast too

    anyone with them too? any feedback? — so far so good been in 4 months now

    they are good with n00bs too, i referred a few trader friends that are just starting out

  373. 373 Al

    I like the list a lot!!!

    I’d appreciate a recommendation to:

    I am very interested in proprietary trading firms, which the main focus is swing or position trading.

  374. 374 DOUG

    Next Level Trading is a scam. I traded with them and they are manipulating my trades. If you are a low volume trader like me, they will add shares to your trade position whenever you exit them. It’s keeps on adding up… it looks like they are watching your trades and they will mainpulate you once you liquidated your position especially if you are on the wrong side. It’s hard to explain, but that’s how I lost my capital with them. And their software program, the Blackwood Pro tech support are in collaboration with them. That’s what I found out on my personal findings. They are in constant coordination whenever you brought up your complains. Anyway, that’s a hard lesson for me. And their website keeps on changing, so be watchful with this Next Level Trading firm, you might suffer what I have gone through.

  375. 375 Fernando

    Ah that sucks bro. I have heard that there are a lot of firms out there that push you to trade but not like this. If there is one firm i can vouch for is the one i am with

    They are under
    The good thing about them is that they don’t push you to trade a lot, because they have a lot of whales! :) a lot of rich guys that help to pay the bill! :)

    and no, I’m no recruit for staralliancecapitalone..and i don’t think they would like me as a recruit either cause i don’t BS. I will tell you straight up that if you are a rookie you will loose the money you put in. That your first year, you are there to learn, not to pay bills! sort of like my school view of paying your tuition! :)

  376. 376 Fernando

    oh i forgot to say that my firm does use Blackwood Pro but in my year there i have never heard of a complaint like that! Your’s is the first. That firm is doing something illegal…

    And Blackwood Pro does sucks…well the charts thats it, the market maker is great. I don’t pay for the charts, as i use esignal

  377. 377 rich

    Experiene with world wide traders capital ? i spoke to firm 5k, ten leverage, 100percent payout. Platform intsaquote only.

  378. 378 B4banko

    I use them. I thought they also had Real Tick & one other that I can’t remember at the current time. Insta Quote is basic I use it to trade off of but I use Think or Swim for charting. Great service & have never had a problem getting my money. & that is something I am paranoid about.

  379. 379 rich

    Asked a question about this firm on elite trader response was proceed with caution. Did you receive payout s from this up to twice weekly? Is the firm good withlowering costs for large volume, and changing bp? Thankyou

  380. 380 B4banko

    If you would like to talk, email me with your # at I will explain how they are setup so you have the complete picture.

  381. 381 P

    Are there firms that help people who have a strategy but not alot of money?

  382. 382 mark mendoza

    P you are correct, prop firms allow you to test out your trading strategies with as little as 5k, most retail firms require 25k to day trade, but if you joing a prop firm such as — your risk capital is just 5k —

    im currently with so far so good, no complaints, live chat room, good support — you might want to check them out

    im looking for other people’s feedback on as well, please contribute any feedback/thoughts/advice/recommendations

    just wondering if there’s anything better

  383. 383 Jtradeup

    I have traded with few firms currently with Cy Group. I was kinda skeptical at first but its been over a year now and I am happy. Not happy with my trading but the level of support they offer was really unexpected. So many ways to contact them via chat, phone or messaging. Anyways guys know what they are doing they help me maximize my rebates by routing to weird ecns all the time but hey they save me money.I also like to pull out profits sometimes weekly Cy Group dont have issues. Done all online. Anyways i wanted to add my thoughts on title. traded with them for a while not bad either good competitive deals but didnt like their support on new traders. was almost non existent. I have also traded briefly with hold bros, not bad but so many fees and high rates. Software wasn’t so good either in my opinion.

  384. 384 Rich

    Ephiphany trading llc. in newyork. Anyone familiar with trhis firm?

  385. 385 Arialle

    I spoke with them and was going to set up a demo account first to try them out. They seem the most upfront, honest, and legit.

  386. 386 Brian

    Kerschner Trading, all the traders at Kerschner Trading trade with one style - that is scalping.

  387. 387 Chad Cohen

    I am a recent college graduate from Chicago, looking for a runner or clerking position on the floor of the BOT. Does anyone know the best route to go about finding such a position. I am looking to eventually become a trader and want to start from the ground up.

    Thank You.

  388. 388 Rich

    golden market management out of canada, I heard something positive about this firm recently. Anyone experienced with this firm?

  389. 389 Josh

    A question for the veterans out there…..

    For the last year I have been trading a 20k account with lots of learning curves. Basically I have went from losing money, to breakeven, to losing, to breakeven, to now finally consistantly making about $100.00 a day - depending upon the week +/-. I recently graduated college and would like to trade fulltime for a living. The problem is however with the capital I have available to me. Without taking stupid risks 20k is not enough to fund my bills and make a living. I have applied recently to many of the prop firms above but would rather trade independently. Any suggestions about gathering more capital for someone with a short track record like myself? Would it be better to work at a prop shop for awhile to sharpen my skills? Most of the firms do not offer a salary, just capital, which will be a problem for me. Any feed back is welcome. Thanks


  390. 390 Josh

    Answer for Chad Cohen

    Times are changing for the floor. In 07′ I clerked on the floor at the Kansas City Board of Trade and things since then have changed a lot. The CBOT futures pits are virtually dead (outside of the options pits), meaning all of the trading volume is now done via electrionic exchange and not open outcry anymore. I am not trying to ruin your hopes of getting a clerk position on the floor trust me. My original plans after college were to work my way up the ranks on the floor to adventually trade on my own like you. In today’s environment you might be far ahead to work at a clearing house / broker for a couple of years to learn the dynamics and then look to move to a trading position at a prop firm. Another suggestion would be go to a prop firm now and learn from them. Good luck in the future. Trading is a ride, emotion never wins.


  391. 391 Cifgo

    Hi there, could anyone who is/was trading there give me please some infos on WTS? Also, why don’t require canadian firms like Title, Swift and WTS a Series 7 exam from their traders? Does the PDT rule not apply to non US firms and non US traders? Much thanks in advance, Cifco.

  392. 392 miguel

    Hello. I have just started with wts. they will be offering a number of different platforms including lights and sterl. the people have been extremely straightforward during the signon process, thoughb getting thew new office up and running took a bit longer, nonetheless wts has potential to be an excellent firm given costs and support. if you like email me at and i can answer specific questions or put you in touch with my boss who is recruiting. ps i have nothing to do with hiring, just trading at a new firm and have been impressed so far.

  393. 393 Cifgo

    Hi Miguel, thanks for your comment! Well, I spoke to about 5 WTS traders so far and all have been very impressed by the firm. I will consider to go there. Cifgo

  394. 394 mark mendoza

    i also checked out WTS, what first caught my eye was they’re huge i read on all the forums they have both national and international traders from usa to china, big firm, I called in a few times and demo’d the software

    software is ehhh (not that great)
    support is almost non existent

    FWIW either they just dont have that much experience trading OR they dont support newbies very well –

  395. 395 Cifgo

    What forums do you mean? Thanks!

  396. 396 Dean

    I think a lot of traders are getting confused with World Trade Securities which is based out of Quebec, Canada and WTS Proprietary Trading Group, LLC which is based out of the Financial District in New York City. These are two totally seperate companys although managed by the same owners. I had an interview this week with WTS in New York and the trading floor is top notch along with their technical support and training staff. They all seem straight forward and honest with what they offer. I will be joining them shortly.

  397. 397 Cici

    Hi,Do anybody has experience in trading with Hold Brother?I am with them now.Recently ,they removed my profits up to 8k with reason that there were oversell violations.Does the broker have the right to remove the profits?Is it legal?I think they can break my trades totally if there are violations but not just remove the profits.

    I am using Sterling.What’s oversell?I just do as the software allow me to do.

    It is really sucks.And they act as the King ,will never give you reply on this.And the support will just tell you that it is the company rules.

    I hate them now.They give me the platform,they set up the rules and remove my profit in the end.Do anybody have the same experience ?

    What should I do now?Could anybody help?


  398. 398 Cifgo

    You could also ask on, Cici. I’m sure there are a lot of traders who know this firm.

  399. 399 Frank

    I noted that the website of WTS in New York says they also trade futures. Anyone have experience with them trading futures? I’ve been looking for a prop firm which trades the eMINI without success.
    Also, does WTC allow remote trading?
    Thanks for the info.

  400. 400 esade

    anyone heard of 7 Sigma in NYC? they claim 5k with atleast 20 to 1 leverage and 85% of p/l is yours. worth taking a look at?

  401. 401 Fernando

    Nope but the firm i am with offers the same terms with 100% p/l is yours!

    Now the commission might be lower there because any firm that takes money from you (besides commission) has to have lower commissions!

    Mines is not bad…if you can’t make money with 60 cents or 80 cents a 100 shares then you have to go with those firms that take money from you but offer lower commissions! Also depending on how much you trade a day, will make your commission stay the same or go lower.

    Dimension Brokerage
    Star Alliance Capital One

  402. 402 Eric

    The markets are making money some days, and other days it is losing money.

    So you can make good picks depending on your methodology.

    My firm deals with a computer software system that automatically buys and sells stock indices and commodities. So it makes money when the stock market is going up, down, or sideways. It uses successful algorithmic trading patterns. It makes money in volatile markets, when most people are losing money, with very little risk.

    I cannot give out all of the details right now.

    What I can tell you is that it has been averaging 20% return per month consistently for the past 18 months (360% total). The worst month return was a 1% loss in September of 2006 and its best month was a 94% gain in October in its 3.5 year track history.

    One of my assistants will be able to give you information. In order to qualify, you must have a minimum of $15,000 of capital and you must read and follow the instructions on the bottom of this page or you will not get a response.

    I can’t give out all the details, publicly, but if you are interested email Eric at:

    I am extremely busy with clients, so you MUST request an appointment to call me Monday through Friday between 9 AM and 5 PM EST. One of my assistants will tell you whether or not I am available that day. Also, my assistants will NOT respond to any email with general questions if an appointment is not set.

  403. 403 Eric

    My firm deals with a computer software system that automatically buys and sells stock indices and commodities. So it makes money when the stock market is going up, down, or sideways. It uses successful algorithmic trading patterns. It makes money in volatile markets, when most people are losing money, with very little risk.

    I cannot give out all of the details right now.

    What I can tell you is that it has been averaging 20% return per month consistently for the past 18 months (360% total). The worst month return was a 1% loss in September of 2006 and its best month was a 94% gain in October in its 3.5 year track history.

    One of my assistants will be able to give you information. In order to qualify, you must have a minimum of $15,000 of capital and you must read and follow the instructions on the bottom of this page or you will not get a response.
    Please note, we do not hold your money- a credible broker such as Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan actually holds the account money (so you can withdraw or deposit whenever you want).

    I can’t give out all the details, publicly, but if you are interested email Eric at:

    I am extremely busy with clients, so you MUST request an appointment to call me Monday through Friday between 9 AM and 5 PM EST. One of my assistants will tell you whether or not I am available that day. Also, my assistants will NOT respond to any email with general questions if an appointment is not set.

  404. 404 Rich

    Do you trade within star alliance or cbd group?

  405. 405 Fernando

    Star Alliance, it’s just a prop firm.

  406. 406 Rich

    Hi fernando, how is your market maket configured in the blaclwood software. Do you run other sotware with it?

  407. 407 Fernando

    Blackwood pro does sux as far as charst goes. I dislike the chart, but the good thing with the firm is that charts are optional. You pay $30 a month for the use of the chart. If you want better charts, you best use esignal or tradestatation. I use esignal, but it cost $100 a month. So i recommend staying on the simple charts till you are able to make more then enough to pay for better charts.

    The only thing i use for blackwood pro is the indices, positions, trader view, and the market maker! Market maker is great and i love it. It’s the only thing that made me stayed with blackwood…or maybe cause i got use to reading the tape with this software! :)

    As far execution systems goes, its fast…although i have not tried another firm i can’t confirm if is faster then anything, but its good enough for me.

    I’m trading remote a lot, and the execution is still as good as is if your trading from the office! So that’s a plus. :)

  408. 408 halligan

    Fernando, what is payout percent and commisions. Do they have any rebates, fixed fees.
    How often you can withdraw funds?

  409. 409 Cici

    Thanks Cifgo.Could you recommend a better prop. firm?I am seeking for a firm to join.It will be great if they have LSE so I can stay at home all the day long.

    Jan 21st, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    You could also ask on, Cici. I’m sure there are a lot of traders who know this firm.

  410. 410 fernando

    This firm for Day trading gives a 20 to 1 leverage (For overnight positions you get a 4-1) charging you 80 cents per 100 shares and you are able to keep all your profits 100% payout. (They charge $2 per contract for options). They just take their commissions and what ever other fees you have to pay to the SEC and stuff like that (so in the end of being 80 cents per share it comes to $1 with all fees).

    If you trade more then 10,000 a day then your commission can go lower to 60 cents, and lower as you trade more. They will also charge you $30 a month if you use their charts and another $30 if you want to be able to see ARCA quotes (Both of this are optional. You don’t have to pay for charts or ARCA quote if you don’t want). Besides that if you want to trade remote you have to pay $75 a month.

    As far as your other questions, the firm distrubute funds every month. Once a month. If you need to take out earlier then that, you can ask them, but i’m not sure cause i never taken out other then every month.

    And yes they have rebates like any other firm, and that’s when you use limit orders through ARCA and others…preatty much anything besides NYSE, but ARCA is the big one.

    So that’s all about it. And again I state, firms that let you keep 100% payout will have higher commissions compare to those that do. So it’s your trading style that will ultimately decide this!

  411. 411 Rich

    Is there a freeze on capital depoits for a year through dimension, or star alliance?

  412. 412 Nick Austin

    You can add Trade Angle to the list of Prop trading groups

  413. 413 Fernando

    Not Star Alliance. I’m not sure about dimension. But i know if you don’t like the partnership with star alliance they will write you a check!

  414. 414 Mike G

    I had an interview with WTS Proprietary Trading Group in New York City. I must say out of all my years trading in nyc this is the first true prop firm I have come across in a long time. Their new trading floor is absolutely gorgeous with electronic swipe card access for traders, ocean front views and gorgeous furniture throughout the place. Soon as I walked in I figured they would be charging an arm and a leg to trade there. I met with management and a few head traders and discussed my trading experience and wanted to see what they would offer me. They all seemed very knowledgeable and honest people to deal with. They have three structures in place for traders and keep it very simple and clean no matter if your experienced or new you get to pick what structure you want.

    structure 1: 90% payout / .0005 (.50 cents per 1000 shares) - capital contribution
    structure 2: 99% payout/ .001 (1.00 per 1000 shares) - capital contribution
    structure 3: 50% in-house training program, no capital required. Must pay $1,500 for training course. When you build your account to $5,000 your payout goes to 75-90%

    I have finished all my paperwork with them today, just waiting for my background check to clear then I am all set, will be trading on their floor by next week. I can’t believe the rates i have been paying for the past five years I want to throw up..

  415. 415 Cifgo

    Hi Mike G.,

    is there a way to provide me with an email address of the WTS management in NYC?


  416. 416 Mike G

    Not sure of their email address or contact number off hand but this is their listing on craigslist I applied to and they called me.

  417. 417 Babak

    Cifgo, unless I’m mistaken WTS is world trade securities, which has a website listed above :-)

  418. 418 JBTrading

    I am looking for a prop shop that will let me trade remote with only 5000 in the acct and be cheap on the commission. I have looked at the lightspeed platform and like it. Can anyone give me your top three firms to check into. Then I will go from there.

  419. 419 Mike G

    World Trade Securities and WTS Proprietary Trading Group and completely different companys. WTS doesn’t have their site up yet they are brand new, I was told by sometime next week

  420. 420 rich

    Hi Fernando, I will going back to star alliance. I traded there a few years ago. Software is important. I have two questions for you. Do you run Blackwood on xp or vista? how are you currently setting the marketmaker on blackwood ? what configuration do you set up in the software, to set up the buttons on the bottom market maker buy to open, buyto close, sell short to open, buy to close etc. At the time I was trading there was individual by the name of david out of prestige who was helping set up the software to trade remote. Who do you speak to in suppoort to help confiqure software? Here is my email address i would like to speak to you directly thankyou.

  421. 421 Cifgo

    Has anyone experience with Epiphany Trading?

  422. 422 Cifgo

    Could anyone who is with Cygroup please provide some experiences with the firm and details on their models they offer to traders such as monthly fees, comms, payouts? Do they only have Laser as trading platform? Any comment is much appreciated! Thanks in advance! Cifgo.

  423. 423 Frank

    what does it mean when the companies’ names come up in that orangish-red color like Tower Hill or Geneva Trading?

  424. 424 John

    Hi Mike - do you have a better contact for this? The email link isn’t working to CL as the posting has been removed. Thanks!

  425. 425 Fred

    I started day trading 4 months ago after the recession took my job. I’ve made some and lost some. I knew nothing of the prop trading industry until today.

    At the Orlando money show I attended a seminar by Oliver Velez of VCM. The program he outlined was intriguing. You contribute $10k, pay .02 per share and he starts you out with $50k. I’ve researched for hours and have read nothing negative about his company by those who maybe traded for him, lost their money and were let go. In fact he claims he has never fired a trader.

    Seems on the up and up, but then I discovered this website and from what I’ve read, his deal, and really the whole prop trading industry is not so desirable. If somebody is out there with any experience dealing with Mr. Velez, I would appreciate if you could give me an idea of what to expect should I enroll in his program.


  426. 426 NJC

    Just got an offer with Seven Sigma Capital, they are at Dimension Brokerage on 5th ave. They want 5K before I start. I’ve read a lot of negative stuff here about the initial investment. Could someone tell me the truth about Dimension? I’m really up in the air about this. Thanks

  427. 427 Miguel

    Hey NJC. I dont know much about dimension, though I heard something about a merger with another group. If you are a new trader, I would say that finding a firm that does not require a capital contribution seems like a better idea. Only because any company that will back you financially, will also be much more interested in turning you into a profitable trader, so they will give you more support and training. As a new trader you should expect to lose money for a considerable time, say 3 to 6 months. Your chances of succeeding are far greater if you find a firm that is comfortable with taking some losses while you learn the game, and encouraging you along the way. As a new trader it is very easy to get discouraged during your initial losing (or learning) experience. I know that when I was new, I lost at least 5 grand if not 10 or 15 before turning profitable around the 6 month mark. However in the next 6 months my gains eclipsed my losses. Had I been trading on my own dime, I would probably have given up after losing my initial investment, and missed out on profitability, not to mention a great potential career. On the other hand, as I have now proven to myself that I am a profitable trader, I am much more likely to post a capital contribution as it would allow me to trade by my own rules, as well as getting a better payout/commission structure. Either way, I would suggest that before putting down your 5k, you should really make sure that the office has strong traders, who would add value to your own trading. There is a ton of firms out there, and unfortunately many of them are only interested in reaping off your commissions, and could care less how many traders go bust as long as there’s others’ willing to put down a cap. Also you should keep in mind that EVERY recruiter pushing you to put down a cap contribution, will tell you that they operate a secret immensely profitable proprietary strategy which can only be learned in their second to none training program (which probably charges a fee). Its not easy to find the right firm, but at least if they back you financially, the most you can lose is your time. It would be helpful if we could compile a list of company’s that back traders. I know of a few: Chimera, WTS, and Trillium.

  428. 428 B4banko


    I have yet to see one that does not want your money. What you have stated is news to me. Every time I speak with a firm they drop the interest when I make it clear my capitol is not going in their account. If they want to put up the capitol I have no problem splitting my earnings. I do it now with my own personal clients that open 10-1 leveraged accounts.

  429. 429 Fernando

    NJC I’m with Star Alliance Capital. Dimension Brokerage is just 1 floor down from where we trade! And there is nothing wrong with them!

    As Star Alliance require you to put 5k so does dimension. But like someone said earlier, that if you are new, then there are other firms that will give a lot of support to new traders! These prop firms that require you to put money down, are for traders who have experience, or who don’t want to work for nobody else, and just want to manage their own money!

    So if you fall on the latter one, then you can try dimension!

    But my recommendation, is to only put down a small amount of money that will not hurt you financially! Because there are no schools out there to teach you how to trade, so you will learn from these props firms and yourself!

    After you have been trading for one year, then you can evaluate yourself, and see if you like this profession or not!

    You can try them, but i think their commission is a bit high for day trading! This firm offers 50 cent per 100 shares and 100% payout:
    The only problem with cygroup is that the leverage for overnight positions is not as great as Star Alliance!

    So if you want day trading Cygroup is a very solid one. If you want Swing trading try Star Alliance, or other firms that give you good leverages!

    Anything else hit me up!

  430. 430 New Trader


    I was offered to work for RBC Professional Trading Group.

    Does anyone know anything about them? It is the office on 11 Broadway.

    I know I start trading with 25 K until I make 25 K to put on my own account, but do they increase my account size later on?

    Is the training program good?

    Thank you

  431. 431 paul

    is anyone here a member of i’ve heard it’s a good free network for traders to chat and share info, etc

  432. 432 Cyrus

    hey Babak

    Brilliant list mate, well done.
    Im in UK and without trying to sound stupid here, do any of these prop trading firms work in forex market ?
    I have been trading FX for the past couple of years and just graduated from uni. Really like to get a graduate job in any of these prop firms to start off the career!

    cheers mate

  433. 433 John

    This thread is awesome. I have been looking for information about prop trading firms and this kind of information is pretty useful to bear in mind. Well, at first, I was interested in trading futures and forex but I would consider to trade other financial products instead.

    On one hand, after reading these posts I got to be a bit disappointed because of this lack of success in many of the people who try working at this kind of firms unsuccessfully. For that reason, from now on I am doubting whether investing any money as I thought firstly. I mean, unless you tell me that I am wrong, there might be some of these companies which do not require me to invest any money. Nonetheless, I am still interested in it just in case there was any chance to be successful myself.

    On the other hand, since I think that I have the qualifications (Master finance) needed to enter into a training program as trader into a bank, I would like to know from someone who knows what difference would exist between the job of trader in a bank and the job of trader in a prop trading firm. I gotta say that I love speculative trading and it seems to me that that is not neccessary what I would be doing all the time as a trader in a bank.

    Moreover, what really really really….really propels me is the idea that the money I can earn is completely variable and it all depend on my performance and only my performance if working in a prop trading firm.
    To end with, I would be pleased if any of you could tell me some prop trading firm with offices in Spain. I would not mind to move, but after having read all what I read in this thread I am not sure if moving would make any sense before checking that this business fits with me.

    I almost forgot. Since I have seen some offer for junior traders in the Swiftrade’s offices in Barcelona, Spain in thich they do not even require having studied something related to Mathematics but at the same time I have seen that most trading positions I have seen in banks require candidates with quantitative profiles, I would like to know up to what point the trading style which is carried out in this prop firms needs quantitative minds. I thought it had more to do with technical analysis, studying curves, tendencies and stuff like that instead of so much Mathematics.

    So, any suggestion about all this things would be really appreciated.

  434. 434 Varun

    Hi, I am currently an MS Finance student from IIT Chicago looking for trading internships. Can anyone tell me where all to apply in India?


  435. 435 Jorge John

    Hello Varun
    nice to meet u. Actually I was accepted into that program in IIT Chicago for 2008/09 but I eventually went to another school. I am looking as well for an internship in a speculative trading positions involving technical analysis mostly.

  436. 436 Kurtosis

    John, Technical Analysis and Quantitative Analysis are not the same thing. The former can be taught to most anyone, uses charts and basic statistics to identify high-probability trades, but still boils down to human pattern matching ability, intuition, and luck. The prop shops discussed on this thread hire people willing to trade their own money and take a cut of the profits, or let them go if they blow up.

    The latter requires the study of math at least up to stochastic calculus and involves creation and use of mathematically sophisticated models for trading and money management. Banks hire quants to manage millions or billions of clients’ and the bank’s own money, hence the education requirement. If you want to learn more about the latter, I suggest perusing, one of the top quant portals.

  437. 437 Jorge John

    hello Kurtosis

    Ok. Thanks for your answer. Anyways, I know quantitative analysis because that has been taught to me in the master in finance I am currently studying and I know something of technical analysis because I have studied it on my own. Nonetheless, what I would really like to end up doing is speculative trading applying technical analysis and only technical analysis if that trading style works consistently without quantitative stuff. What I want to ask you is related to what steps you suggest me to follow to end up happily working in what I just told you. So,

    first question: What kind of companies might do speculative trading? I know that propriety trading firms do it. But, I am not that sure what other kind of companies do it. For example: as far as one of my teachers told me (he works for one of the biggest traditional banks from my country) I know that the biggest traditional banks in my country have trading departments which have the following structure:

    trading department: they used the models created by the quantitative department.

    quantitative department: they create the models used by the traders.

    sales department: they receive the requests from the clients and tell the traders to carry them out.

    Positions in the quantitative department require people who is good at Mathematics.

    For, positions in the trading department, as far as this teacher told me, traders need to understand how to interpret the models built by the quantitative department. Moreover, it would be useful if traders knew how this models are built.

    I know that these banks trading departments manage money from their clients and also the banks’ own money. But my question is: Do the traders at these trading departments work speculatively? Is the experience achieved in this trading departments at banks useful if I what I really want is to end up trading in a propriety trading firm for a retribution based on personal gains?

    Bearing in mind that what I would really like to end up doing is:
    applying only technical analysis in a speculative style of trading for
    futures, forex and may be even stock(ETF) but not options because they have
    pretty much quantitative stuff

    I would like to do this with a systematic approach to achieve consistent gains and get a retribution based on personally produced gains. So, I would like to know your opinion about what steps you suggest me to follow: the thing is that I guess the best way to learn what I want to end up doing would be attending a training program from an internship in a propriety trading firm but there are not that many propriety trading firms like that in my country. I have already tried with two of these trading firms. The first one, called digitrade told me they needed only people with experience and the other one, swifttrader, has not replied me yet.

    The thing is that as far as I have read, you might need to have some financial support while you are learning the stuff at one of these propriety trading firms since retribution is based on personal gains. Since I might afford that only if I am in Spain because my expenses are low compared to if I moved abroad, then I doubt whether I could afford moving abroad(for example Chicago, in the US) for a internship of this kind. If I moved, I guess I would need a fixed income. If there was some company for example in Chicago(USA) or wherever abroad which offered internships for training in a speculative trading with technical analysis and only technical analysis and at the same time offered a fixed retribution to survive, I think that would be the company which is tailored to my needs, at least to get some experience in the beginning. Because as most of you when I had some experience on getting consistent profits, I would like to end up working for a retribution based only on personal gains.

    Another question I have: I have seen that there are many propriety trading firms from the list of this thread that are requiring people with quantitative profiles. But, is there anyone from this list which might have internships in which they teach you a system based on a speculative style of trading based on applying technical analysis and only technical analysis with no quantitative stuff whatsoever? If so, could you tell me any of them? I ask you this because this trading industry seems to be quite diverse but what I would like to do is very specific and I do not even know if there are that many propriety trading firms which might follow this approach I just described in this last paragraph. Since I do not want to end up doing something which is not what I really like, I would really appreciate any help in these issues.
    Sorry for the huge extension of this post. It is just that I have not met that many good places to ask this kind of information, and I have not acquaintances in this industry of trading. Therefore, this thread has been really good and useful to find people who share my interests.

    Look forward for your answers.
    Thanks a lot in advance.


  438. 438 Kurtosis

    Jorge, apologies didn’t mean to sound condescending, you obviously know the domain. I posted a similar question to this on forums almost a year ago, and got some good feedback, maybe it will help you too:

    The best advice starts with ChigagoGuy’s response. I also suggest asking your question on their Trading forum as well.

    Some banks have their prop shops where they do more speculative, global-macro-type trading, but that may be more among investment banks (what’s left of them) than commercial banks.

    If you want to stay in Spain, I’d suggest researching all the banks headquartered there, or with major offices there, find out which if any have such prop trading desks, then figure out how to get employed on them. It may not be a direct route, you may get a diff job at that bank, then find a way to transfer internally.

    My next choice would probably be to look at Chicago, even if it’s a financial stretch for you, as ChicagoGuy’s response above indicates that there are lots of trading firms there that are more than boiler-room prop shops, but less than banks or investment banks. I don’t know that scene well though, this is just my sense from reading books and forums about it.

    If I can think of anything else, will post.

  439. 439 Scott

    Hi, does anyone know of any prop firms with desks in Charlotte. I currently trade with a firm but need to relocate to NC if possible. Im looking through the list to see if I can find any but havent found any yet. If anyone knows of any your help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

  440. 440 Jorge John

    Hello guys

    Hi Kurtosis, this is funny, because I also have a background in IT and I am currently doing this Masters in finance to make the move into trading. Well, it feels great to have the opportunity to meet people like you mates with common interests, this is awesome!
    I think this search of internships is gonna take me sometime since there are quite a lot sites to visit from the long list of prop trading firms from this thread. I still have to do a through research among them.

    But, for the time being, as I told you the only thing I might be worried about is that: when recruiters see my background, they might say, hey man! this guy is useful in a quantitative trading position because what I want is not quantitative stuff but just trading with technical analysis in case that is possible.

    An another thing that is still in my mind is that some firms from the list of trading firms in this thread offered junior positions but I think most of these positions I saw were related to quantitative stuff. So, I would really appreciate that you told me if you get to know any firm in the US or wherever which have junior trading positions not involving quantitative stuff. If I find this kind of position before any of you guys tell me, then I can post it here as well to let you know. At least, I think from all of you guys, Kurtosis might be interested in that kind of positions unless you already have experience.

    Thanks in advance for all your comments which I appreciate a lot.
    Keep in touch

  441. 441 Jorge John

    Well, an example of the kind of a trading position which involves quantitative stuff is the ones from
    As you will be able to see at their site the skill set they require for their trading positions is:

    Trading candidates should be:
    Excellent quantitatively, with a strong understanding of probability and statistics
    Effective communicators in a close-knit team setting
    Motivated, competitive and eager to learn and teach
    Able to solve new problems quickly in the hectic environment of a busy desk or exchange floor
    Excited to engage in impromptu and exploratory debate on trading strategy and risk
    Previous experience or course work in finance, business, or economics is NOT required. We’re more interested in how you think and learn than what you know.

    But what I am looking for is a trading position based on technical analysis and not that much in quantitative stuff. Well, may be I am looking for a position that does not exist but for the time being I will keep looking for it. And like I said in the previous post, if you get to know what I am looking for, please let me know.
    Keep in touch

  442. 442 Kurtosis

    Hi Jorge, Jane Street is one of the quant shop heavy-weights, I seriously doubt they do any technical analysis there. You can google ‘jane street interview’ or ‘jane street recruiting’ for threads on their recruiting process and business. Here’s one:

    More quant, algo-trading, and game-theory stuff. is probably another good place to research. Two more I just remembered are:

    tickerforum is all about technical analysis trading, and the guy running it does nightly videos that recap the day’s technical signals. Might be some on there who can point you to the kind of trading firm you’re looking for.

  443. 443 RK

    hey guys
    how do i find a list of prop trading firms in Hong Kong? Especially the new start up ones?

    Pls feel free to email me at

    Much appreciated

  444. 444 nolatency

    Could anyone update this great list? Or we can all contribute to it like WiKIPedia version? I found some link are dead. A few of shop in the list are pure day trader shark shop, a few of shops are missing.

  445. 445 Fernando

    That’s it. It’s over for me, and market is going to 4000! I don’t care what kind of money the government throws in, Market is going to 4000!
    And I’m going to short my a** of!

    So in the end, the same route that Germany took after WWI that lead to the collapse of their currency, is being pursued by the US. So don’t be fooled by all these printing money of the government,because is going to lead to stagflation!

    “Both types of explanations are offered in analyses of the global stagflation of the 1970s: it began with a huge rise in oil prices, but then continued as central banks used excessively stimulative monetary policy to counteract the resulting recession, causing a runaway wage-price spiral.”

    “John Maynard Keynes wrote in The Economic Consequences of the Peace that governments printing money and using price controls were causing a combination of inflation and economic stagnation in Europe after World War I. Stagflation was, as stated above, also a very serious macroeconomic problem in the 1970s.”

  446. 446 Plamen

    I just want to ask you…I am new in the business and want to trade online from home.Do you know a company that will provide training for remote trading and will not charge me
    Thanks in advance

  447. 447 Jorge John

    That’s a very good question!
    That would be great!

  448. 448 Jorge John

    according to your experience, is it useful to have passed the CFA (chartered financial analyst) to get a position in directional day trading in a propriety trading firm?
    Thanks in advance

  449. 449 Babak

    Plamen, there are varying degrees of training from different prop firms so it really depends. This is what makes it difficult to find a ‘fit’ - you have to research a few to be able to choose the right one.

    Jorge, no the CFA program isn’t really helpful. You can certainly be a successful trader having the CFA designation but it doesn’t really offer anything specific re trading (other than a very cursory treatment of technical analysis).

  450. 450 Jorge John

    That’s what I thought. It is just that some of my professors at school told me that for example having passed the first CFA level (it has 3 levels) might help when competing for a trading position, above all in London.

    I told them then that this exam is designed for financial analysts and they replied that it is interesting as well for traders. Anyways, the truth is that although this professors might have get to know some traders in their life, as far as I know, none of them have specialized as day traders themselves but financial analysts.

    Another question: is it the same thing working as a day trader in a proprietary trading firm like the one listed above and working as a trader in a hedge fund? I mean, Do hedge funds have directional day trading positions for their proprietary trading desks? If they do, do they give the same kind of remuneration as proprietary trading firms? I mean, Do they give monthly retribution based on profits achieved by the trader like typical trading firms do? Or on the contrary, they just give the trader a bonus at the end of the year depending on the benefits the trader achieved.

    Last question: How relevant is the experience as a trader in a hedge fund for doing directional trading on futures in a proprietary trading firm specialized in day trading futures like for example I mean, at this trading firm they say:
    “At Digitrade we look for a specific profile of trader that differs from a typical bank trader profile. We ask for at least 2 years futures trading experience in a Trading Arcade. We strongly believe in consistency and discipline in our daily trading activity.
    ” Do you think this kind of experience might be got not only in a proprietary trading firm but in a hedge fund?

    I am asking this because some of my professors implied that hedge funds are a good place to find day trading positions. But I am not sure up to what point this professors know the proprietary trading industry which as far as I know is not really developed in Spain. So I would like to ask your opinion.

    Thanks a lot in advance

  451. 451 Reese

    Hey ive been reading , i do have one question ?
    whats the difference between , a hedge fund , and a prop firm (arcade)

  452. 452 Alexander

    what you guys think of Dimension Capital Partners? They want traders to bring 10k$ to start trading with them… scammers?

  453. 453 Chi Trading Guy


    There are a lot of problems with jargon in teh trading business.. here goes

    Hedge Fund - A pool of money - that is managed by a strategy other then long only stocks, that would be a Mutual Fund. Stocks, options, futures, swaps, general derivitive …are the types of instruments used to manage the $$. A Hedge Fund normally follows one strategy and hires traders to follow the Managers Strategy.

    A Prop for Propprietary Firm - Hires traders to trade (it varies) some of theior $$ - and some house $$ - the traders has a preset trading exposure and receives a % of the profits - and normally cousl only use the normally small amount they have to post (if anything). Depending on the degree of trading success, ytrading exposure levels and % of profits to the trader will change.

    Arcade - This is a location that houses Traders who tradwer their own $$. The Arcade offers beneifts such as lower costs of trading (basis volume) tech support and high speed connectivity to its traders.

    I hope that helps.

  454. 454 Chris Chee


    Anyone, can you recommend which prop firm that I should get into to learn trading in NY? I am going to finish my undergrad studies this coming May, and I am confuse on where to start out as a trader.

  455. 455 Plamen

    Guys be more specifiv with the names on that, count 3-4 cmpanies:

    “I just want to ask you…I am new in the business and want to trade online from home.Do you know a company that will provide training for remote trading and will not charge me
    Thanks in advance”

  456. 456 Chris

    Hi there!

    Would please like to know which propietary trading firms have offices in Barcelona (Spain), and/or which allow Remote Trading.

    Thanks a lot there!

  457. 457 Jorge John

    In Barcelona you have swiftrade.

  458. 458 Mark

    Has anyone had any experience with Equity Trading Capital in NYC? Just curious. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

  459. 459 Dan

    Does anyone know about WTS proprietary trading group? Do they trade commodity futures?

  460. 460 Shawn

    I’m considering trading for a prop firm, but I was thinking about it, and I don’t see how it makes sense. If someone can clear it up for me, I’d really appreciate it.

    So what I don’t get is that most prop firms have you deposit money. Say a firm wants you to deposit $5k in order to trade $100k of their capital. That’s 20:1 leverage. You could take that same $5k to a forex broker and get 400:1 leverage. With either the forex broker or the prop firm, you can’t trade after you lose that initial $5k deposit.

    So the only advantage to prop that I can see is that you get training and support.

    Am I missing something?

  461. 461 Jorge John

    Hello Shawn
    I was wondering the same question as you. I have not been to a prop yet but what I can imagine is that they might offer tools like Reuters or Bloomberg or any other expensive tool which might be a bit difficult to afford on your own. If someone knows first hand the answer to this question, you can answer it.

  462. 462 Mike

    anyone know about just received an email from them stating they just launched today. Seems pretty interesting, any feedback appreciated

  463. 463 Matt

    That’s right Shawn, there is no difference, except you will probably get faster execution (assuming they use a platform such as TT) and lower brokerage (but still, most will take a cut of the brokerage to offset any potential trading losses). Others will charge a ‘desk fee’ which covers the use of software and hardware and probably also has a built in profit for the firm.

    In any case, the only advantage prop will give you, is faster execution and lower brokerage.

  464. 464 Otis

    Great Blog. Prop firms just seem like a bunch of fees, fees, and more fees. My rec to someone coming out of college looking for a trading career is to not bank on becoming a prop trader. So many young graduates are enthralled about the idea of attaining the title as being a “trader.” Dont buy into it. Nothings for free and fees are a very sneaky and deceptive way of making seemingly little costs add up to a whole lot. Dont want to talk too much smack about prop firms, but I am just very weary of them (never traded with one but thought about going for an interview after being turned off by the recruiters evasiveness about the firms policies and capital contribution requirements. Look to be traders who are MARKET MAKERS, not “Proprietary.” Market making is where its at, taking orders from hedgefunds, matching buyers and sellers and YOU earn commission. These prop firms, with their splits, desk charges, commissions, fees, etc etc. on and on and on with nonstop fees. Lets face it, these prop jobs are not hard to get AT ALL, if you show one ounce of eagerness to throw down money for a prop firm you’ll be hired in a second. Also, working for some sketchy-ass firm named “chronic trading” certainly will not look fabulous on a resume either. Job security? NONE. God do u know how much pressure you would be under EVERY SINGLE DAY with NO salary and banking solely on commission to pay for rent and dinner?? That is way too much for a recent grad to handle and one not need to suffer such job-INSECURITY. You are merely paying prop firms to use their leverage. It’s a deal, not a job. Take the job at Citi as an operations analyst or a trading assistant ANYDAY over some BS prop trading position. Would look SO MUCH better on a resume as well. Just my 2 cents.


  465. 465 Matt

    Otis, you say you have never traded at a Prop firm, then you go on a diatribe about them? LOL.

    Basically, you can make money trading, you can achieve faster execution, and lower brokerage with Prop, than you would on your own.

    Personally, I would not cough up my own cash to join a prop firm (that defeats the purpose). You should trade their capital, and in return, they take a split. They also take a split of brokerage and a ‘desk free’ to cover their fixed costs and those who do not make it.

    That’s basically how it works.

    If you want lower brokerage and higher % splits, go to where the competition lies, such as Europe, whereby you can achieve both.

    If you want leverage, trade futures, far cheaper than equities.

  466. 466 juliam

    Looking for a company that pays or give trader starting captain if profit is made it is split 50/50

  467. 467 Gene


    I’m going to be graduating this May from the University of Michigan and was interested in learning more about prop trading. From what I’ve researched so far, companies will leverage your whatever capital you put in. However, what I do not understand about these companies is how they are able to manage risk and make a profit.

    For instance, if I were to put $10,000 of my own capital and say they leverage me 20:1, I would have approximately 200k to trade with. What happens when I lose 50k within the first month on trading? Do I have to pay this back to does the company take the hit? Or on a more positive note, say I make a profit of $100,000 my first year of trading. How will these profits get divided up? Is it realistic to say I would be able to keep 75k out of the 100k after fees and commissions?

    Any input/advice would be helpful.


  468. 468 Kurtosis

    Here’s another prop firm I just came across, doesn’t appear to be on the list:

  469. 469 chi town

    good posts for recent grads. But u guys must understand one thing that is very important. ALL THESE PROP SHOPS ARE ONE THING: BROKERAGE. ok let me simplfy you trader x comes in with 5k or whatever. They charge you $10 per thousand shares they in turn pay $1 per thousand shares. All these shops make money off your trading and are really nothing more than a broker dealer. THey are no different than a charles schwab or TD but they give you leverage. IT is not a job or a career but a business that u develop as a trader. That being said some traders do make money. It is very hard and a tough biz. U can make it but it will be challenging. Just dont go into these prop shops thinking its a job…it is not. U are on your own and are an entenpenuer plain and simple. If u need a job and a salary this is not for you.

  470. 470 Mike

    Has anyone heard anything about Investor Capital Corp in NYC?

  471. 471 Babak

    Mike, ICC is a regular broker/dealer.

  472. 472 Jibs

    Hey guys, I was wondering if any of you knew of any prop firms in Dubai?

  473. 473 Babak

    Jibs, Dubai scares me. I wouldn’t set foot there even for a vacation. Beneath the thin veneer of pomp it is like going back to 4th century dark ages.

  474. 474 Jibs

    Babak, thanks for your concern. I visited Dubai not to long ago for four months and actually enjoyed it. I know they have a trader arcade there but I did know if they had any prop firms. I was just wondering because I thought since they guarantee no taxes for 50 years their might be some prop firms there.

  475. 475 Ronak

    Hello Babak

    First of all thanks for all the work you have done over here
    Secondly is there a possible way i can find out about mostly all
    the prop trading firms in Canada

  476. 476 SEAN

    URGENT - please help!!

    Does anyone know prop firms with market access in India, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea, and U.S


  477. 477 Babak

    Sean, although there may be others, check with swiftrade first - I’m pretty sure they have an office in India.

    Ronak, do you mean as a remote trader? or on location? swiftrade is probably the best known prop firm in Canada. There’s also Golden Market based out of Montreal.

    Jibs, Dubai is great as long as everything is peachy. But do one single thing wrong and you’ll find out how closed a society it is.

  478. 478 Ronak

    Hello Babak

    Thanks for the reply well i was looking for on location or remote either one
    but i prefer on location which can offer a base salary also. i have tried my
    hand on swift trade but not worth it as its mostly controlled by big boys and
    dont get a chance to advance at the next level

  479. 479 Rew

    Another possible for the list:

    Liquid Capital Markets

    It is part (the main part) of the Liquid Capital Group which has offices on London (HQ), Sydney, Chengdu and Chicago. Not sure if they have trading floors in Chengdu and Chicago but they have substantial operations in both London and Sydney.

    It’s very focused on volume leadership in the products it trades. It’s predominantly a market maker trading with it’s own capital. I believe there is a prop trading dimension also but someone who works there might know more.

    The Liquid Capital Group also has a broking division called Liquid Capital Securities.

  480. 480 Babak

    Rew, from what I can see Liquid is a market maker/specialist. I don’t see anywhere that they are a prop firm. If I’m mistaken, please let me know with a specific link or info.

  481. 481 Robinson

    Hey, does anyone know of any good Proprietary Trading Firms “prop shops” here in Boston, Ma. I’m pretty much new to this and would appreciate any pointers or things to look out for.

  482. 482 Rador

    I’m in NY and I’m looking for a company that offers free remote trading. Low commissions and fees. I know of a company that is 60 cents per 100 shares, $60.00/month software fees, free remote, and 98% payout. Does anyone know any firm that is better?

    I would prefer companies located in NY.

  483. 483 Pete N

    first of all, fantastic blog Babak…big props (sorry had to get the pun in)

    I have been for an assessment meeting with a prop firm in London this week, they are offering to pay a subsistence allowance to pay for food/travel for the first few months training (US$ 550) the for the next 3 months while i move onto simulation training it increases to US$800. When I go to live trading in 6 months they provide 100% of the capital to trade (with no financial risk to myself). The one draw back is that they want you to committ to them on a 4yr contract.

    Can you guys shed any light..or give any advice on this entry level position.

  484. 484 Babak

    Pete, sounds better than what 99% out there are offered but it is hard to tell without knowing all the details, and I’m sure there are more. You can certainly take advantage of it to get a foot in the door and then keep an eye out for better offers when you’ve got more experience.

  485. 485 Robinson

    Hey Rador i wanted to know what company were you talking about that offers that deal, i think it would be worth calling.

  486. 486 Rador

    The name of the company is CY Group.
    In my last post, I failed to mention that to close the account, the company would charge you $200.

    If anyone has any info/experience with CY Group please let us know.

  487. 487 D

    Pete, that sounds really sketchy. Why do they want you on a 4 year contract? What qualifications do you have that makes you an asset to them? Is it a large company? I would be extremely careful.

  488. 488 Robinson

    Does anybody know of any proprietary trading firms in Boston or remote trading places that are free to join?

  489. 489 Fernando

    CY Offers free Remote Trading!

    But I must say their Swing Trading Policy is not good!

    The only descent one i know for Swing Trading is still Star Alliance!

    4 to 1 leverage for overnight positions. 80 cents per 100 shares, and 100% payout ratio!

    Overall: CYgroup best for Day Trading
    and Star Alliance best for Swing Trading!

    If you can find a better deal then these two, then please, share the knowledge! :)

  490. 490 Alejandro Arbelaez

    gentlemen i need to take one of the learning programs of some of the firms of the list, in their concept which can be the best. I thanks a lot your collaboration.

    Alejandro Arbelaez

  491. 491 Stephen

    Does anyone know the name of a prop firm in Vancouver, BC? If memory serves correct, it is run by two brothers from Kelowna, BC and is affiliated with a US firm.

  492. 492 Sharck

    I moved to Toronto recently and was interested in a list of any prop-trading shops in the area outside of Swift. Would like to focus on institutional trading.
    PS If anyone is interested in learning about trading or joining my cyber trading room, please visit my site at
    A trading blog for the past year is accessable on Facebook with the same name.

  493. 493 Marko

    Hi guys,

    I am currently located in Singapore and am specialized in intra-day futures trading on Asian stock indeces (Korea-Jpan-Taiwan….). I do have a model running under Excel which consists in detecting momentum and mean-reverting scenarios. Can anyone advise me of any trading firm where I get a decent profit sharing. I am ready to participate in the capital up to US$50k to enable me to start with a good portfolio size.

    Any advise or comments would be welcome.

  494. 494 Dipak

    Avatar Trading/Securities and Dimension Trading give a good deal in NYC area. Very helpful people.

  495. 495 rich

    How much did you have to put down avatar? Payout percentage/ Thankyou Was there there a lock up in capital in the contract for anyperiod of time?

  496. 496 Dipak

    lock up in capital…hearing that for the first time.
    5Gs and thats it…u can close the acct anytime u want and take ur remaining deposit back….only major disadvantage is that they don’t even suggest what and how to trade…forget about training…and anyway no one can train anyone in this business it is trial and error…finally I learned about Stochastic and MACD and surviving.
    For me Stochastic 3 mins and MACD 1 min combo works great.
    Anyway back to Avatar and Dimension…if you are a safe trader than buying power is not a problem with any amount of deposit.

  497. 497 Robinson

    Does anyone know a prop-shop that does absolutely free remote trading or is that something that doesn’t exist isn’t. I looked into CY Group and got nothing, most of the places i’ve contacted said that i would have to pay 5,000 dollars in deposits and for that i could open my own account and trade forex.

    So if anyone has any suggestions i would love to know, and this is a awesome blog one of the most helpful.

  498. 498 Simon

    Does anyone know any good Sales guys based out of NY with strong buyside contacts and futures e-trading experience? I have a client looking for someone based out of NY to develop this market - this is electronic trading sales.

    Any help would be welcomed!

  499. 499 Simon

    I have a client looking for a strong sales hire in NYC to develop Buyside clients within the futures E-Trading space. Does anyone know anyone with a strong sales track and good contacts here that could be a good fit?

    Any help is much appreciated.

  500. 500 Joe

    Hi Babek,

    Do you know of any Prop firms in either Chicago or New York that could trade crude oil futures?


  501. 501 paidpipper

    Hi folks,

    Firstly, thanks to Babak for this terrific blog. And thanks to many of you for your generous offerings of insights. I’ve learned much from you. And I could use your insights further on the questions below.

    First, I’m new to trading. I paper traded on Ninja Trader using real time market data for the last 7 months. I rely on Fib ratios, Elliott Wave, S/R, candlesticks, and more recently Stoch and MA. (I’ve read stuff by Steenbarger and Dalton. I’m currently reading Van Tharp’s “Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom”, which emphasizes risk management big time, and seems pretty good.) I’m getting a bit bored with paper trading and I’m ready to move forward.

    I have 25K to start trading in SPY ETF. I’m gonna trade at the 100/200 share level for some time until positive results justify greater size. (At that point, I might move directly into eMini futures.)

    My question(s):
    1) Should I find a prop shop that would provide better commission rates rather than trade independently through Interactive Brokers? Their rate is $1/100 shares.

    2) Given my circumstance what other advantages might there be to trading through Prop? I think I could benefit from meeting other traders, burgeoning or experienced. And being taken under the wings of a good mentor would be excellent.

    3) Any other insights are welcomed.

  502. 502 Ronak

    Hello Babak

    Thanks for all the information provided on this blog…..

    My questions are

    1. Is it better to start with a prop firm or start with brokers like interactive brokers

    2. How much would be a good deposit in any of this firsm

  503. 503 Darvastrader

    A good list. Any of you guys know where I can get such a list for firms operating in Australia? Cheers

  504. 504 Eddie R

    I have a number of proprietary trading opportunities (licensed/unlicensed). Self clearing, low commission rates, high payouts, great software. Please direct all inquiries to

  505. 505 tommy

    First off>> dude trading 100 share lots while learning is key!!!! MONEY MANAGEMENT!!!!!!!! EMINI while learning — ouch - - - that will be an account blowing hard hard lesson for you!!!! money management trading Emini contrcats is difficult without a lot of money> only for experienced traders not for a newbie even if you have as much capital as you do trust me please!!!! you have the right idea with the 100 share lots!! the smaller the better> i trade at a prop firm I began trading 100 share lots and i did not move from hundred share lots till i felt no fear!!! till i knew that 200 would no be a problem! than i stayed with two hundred till again NO FEAR!!! 100 shares is not the same as 1000 shares thjose who say you can do it with 100 you can do it with 100000 shares NO WAY!!! As for prop firms____
    IF YOU WANT TO BE A “trader” PROP FIRMS ARE GREAT!!!!!!!! i ma sick and tired of everyone talking smack. there are tw types of people ones who want to trade but want to make a great living right from the jump, the second those who know if i work hard now in 5 years my dreams will come true!! when i started i said to myself i rather be broke for 5 years than live my dream than try to get rich fast, fail>>and be miserable for the next 5 years…
    My friends could not deal with 100 share lots…working part time to pay the bills >>> their expectations : like most are FLAWED!!!
    if i had 1,000,000 dollars i would open a prop firm and out of 100 traders get the 10 that are willing to put the time in and LEARN eventually it will pay off>> now with the other 90 who want to “get rich” trade 100 recklessly would I move them to 1000 shares NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as for the deposit or “training fee” what do you think is everyone stupid would i risk my million to let you get a free pass to try to be rich???? get outta here!!!! prove it to me!!!!! i am American but those from other countries are right Americans are lazy and always looking for the easy way out…………if you want to be a serious trader you would be willing to put your money up and LEARN LEARN TRADE TRADE endure the pain KEEP LEARNING KEEP TRADING…..prop firms are great they give little smucks like you and me an actual CHANCE to do what we love to do…….but in the end those with passion, those who know there is no easy way, and those with patience will succede!!!!!!!!
    Thank you

  506. 506 Fernando

    Wow passionate view there tommy. But you are right, prop firm is a great place to learn how to trade.

    I know most people that become good, the company pay them to trade for them, or where scouted by hedge funds.

    I would recommend a prop firm that has traders, so you can learn from them, and they can learn from you. This will help your trading career a lot.

    And then once you are comfortable with what you doing, then you can do whatever you like. But my utmost recommendation is to start with other traders.

  507. 507 Yechiel Aaron

    Could someone please send me some info. on any firms that offer remote and full prop (their capital) equity trading. you can email me at Thank you very much. Yechiel (Michael) Aaron

  508. 508 Jason Reynolds

    Hey guys I have always read this board with enthusiasm and interest (I have learned a lot) and finally I have something to contribute myself that is a once (or twice, lol) in a lifetime kind of opportunity. A few friends of mine from childhood are pro traders…that is all they do. They put up a website and trading room that teaches all sorts of amazing stuff…for the next few days they are willing to let people have a “sneak peek” into their world with no cost or obligation whatsoever…their trading and P/L does the talking…amazing stuff…here is the link to see for yourself…

  509. 509 Keith from NY

    I am reading through your postings. very helpful - thanks. I left an Operations job at a top tier firm. I also went to a good school. I am 27 and have been trading options for a while now. I have extensive market knowledge but know nothing about the day trading firms’ reputations individually. The list is very comprehensive. However, they are all the same to someone with no knowledge of them like me. So, I am going to rely on your perspectives.

    My questions are:
    1.) Which New York firm(s) is the most highly regarded in the industry?
    2.) If you had to do it over, which New York firm would you pick or Which one give the traders the most benefits?

  510. 510 BUDF0X
  511. 511 Babak

    Thanks Bud.

  512. 512 John

    Not a fan of coastal if you are a newbie - will not give you any guidance whatsoever and they do not actually help you with risk management. I would recommend learning with actual traders even remotely - first before signing up with them.

  513. 513 Robinson

    hi, i does anyone know what i should know about a prop shop before i join, what are the advantages and disadvantages to working for one, if anyone could give some advice it would be greatly appreciated, i’m heading to nyc and want to know what to watch out for???

  514. 514 craig zaron

    good prop firms in miami, fl

  515. 515 Trader_954

    There are some popping up all over S.Florida , while most are in BOCA , MARGATE , and WEST PALM.. getting on with any of these guys is cool , but ask to see the office first , alot are just (reselling another prop) I know that sounds like BS but ive seen it.

    BTW im outta Deerfield, pleased to meet you

  516. 516 czaron

    thanks trader_954.
    Any names and numbers that you can recommend?

  517. 517 Anu

    Has anyone worked at Keystone and can provide insight?

  518. 518 Andre

    Anyone know anything about these guys Paramount Equity Partners

    thanks in advance

  519. 519 Jesse

    Does anybody know any good prop firms in the Washington D.C area? Thanks

  520. 520 tim

    Could someone please send me some info. on any firms that offer remote and full prop (their capital) equity trading. you can email me at TIMTIK@GMAIL.COM. Thank you very much. TIM

  521. 521 sweet_cheese

    Anyone familiar with Triton Trading, Soldier Capital or its parent Madison Proprietary Trading Group in the NY/NJ area? The principals appear to have impressive bios but are they on the level. Web sites are a bit thin, but there is some info out on the web about Triton CEO Seldon Clarke.


    Thanks in advance.

  522. 522 Dipak

    Thanks sweet_cheese….These guys (Triton Trading) offer TradeStation charting which is like the best in the world and extremely user friendly and thus expensive also!
    I was looking for firms offering TS software. Thanks for the tip.

  523. 523 The Equiter


    I have an interview with S&B Capital and am interested to hear your opinion of the company.

    Also you have created a large list of prop trading firms, do you have any suggestions on which to send my resume?

  524. 524 hwan cho

    hey i was looking through the forum here and ive been trying to find a prop firm that requires no initial contribution. I know it was mentioned above somewhere but cannot for the life of me find it. could you guys help me out? or what should i type in my search bar to find the list above>?

  525. 525 derick

    I have been trading on and off as a prop trader for years and there is a important point to remember. There may be diffrent groups with in larger firms such as Dimension. Each group caould be totaly diffrent in respect to support, training, mentorship etc….After speaking with 3 groups that i later found out were all with in Dimension….i went with the 3D trading group…..You must put up funds but there traders were ‘real traders’ the managment were proffesionals with lots of experince and ther on-line chat room was a life saver for me ( sitting by myself)…nothing but good experience there…they are in westcheter -north of the city in elmsford ny

  526. 526 Dipak

    I agree and vouch for derick’s Sep 30th, 2009 at 2:40 pm comment.

  527. 527 BruceD

    Please help -
    I read this entire thread and now I’m nervous. My story is similar to most on here. The company is Benchmarq Trading Partners, LLC….anyone have any information on them? They want $5k down and will put up $45k…they havent mentioned anything about transaction fees - the only fee charged is the $200 monthly for Sterling Technologies software trading platform…I’m hoping they are one of the good guys…
    Here it is in their words:

    The Fees

    Each and every trader is responsible for their own market data entitlements which total approximately $200 per month, these are pass through fees paid to the major exchanges. We use Sterling Technologies Sterling Pro trading software; they are a third party provider. At the start of each month the $200 amount is debited from each trader’s capital account. One hundred percent (100%) of your P/L is added or subtracted at the end of each month to your deposit, or capital account. Each trader earns ninety (90%) percent of their respective monthly trading gains. You can withdraw your profits by check or wire the following month.

    any advice??

  528. 528 Babak

    Bruce, sounds like you need to get the answers to some basic questions (check the ones at the top of the page).

  529. 529 Reeseinv

    Bruce ,
    Im not here to advertise , but sterling sucks..
    honestly if youre gonna go that route , use CYGROUP , they are really good and have a training for the software (LASER) they have uber fast ECN’s and they will be straight up about all fees and transactions , DATA , etc.

    They are a good group with a good reputation.

  530. 530 Owen

    Hi All;

    I read all the posts. this forum is great. I have some trading experience with no great success equities and futures. I am looking to get real good training and trade firm’s capital for at least 6 months or so i can get a good track record

    I couldnt find T3 (formerly Nexis) capital website as it is referred here. I am looking with companies $0 down right now since money is tight for my learning curve.

    Anyone knows firms with $0 down remote trading/training?


  531. 531 Scott

    I am an 12 year veteran of the institutional equity markets, having traded for 4 boutiques-mainly covering the who’s who of the new york and boston hedge fund community for the extent of my career–I.E. I was guy sitting on the trading desk on the sell side executing and seeing what hedge fund guys focus on day to day, and what is important to them and their P&L. As my career progressed I became more of an idea generation type for my best customers and still work as a consultant to them today.
    If any of you young guys are looking to learn the in’s and out’s of trading, from someone who has crossed paths with some of the best PM’s, traders, and analysts on the street, I would be willing to teach a few of you.
    Most likely I will scare you out of wanting trade for a living, however, if you truly have your sights set on making this your career, perhaps I can give you a bit of an edge as you take your first steps.
    I am series

    FYI -I tend to believe that most of these prop shops are chop shops, looking to clip kids for their money, although I do not know anyone that has worked for any of them besides First New York-a more advanced type of prop shop as described above. I would assume the rest are places you go to learn your first lesson of Wall Street- getting taken down.

  532. 532 wayne

    I should spend more than 10 minutes on this subject some time, but I’ll give those looking to get started with no or little experience, a few minutes take on what I see as the most important lessons I can share with you.

    First of all,

    Whom the Gods Will Destroy They First Make Brave - Euripides, 450 BC

    Post this in your office and read it every day. Traders that stay in the business for decades are usually incredibly humble, willing to admit they are stupid, and change their opinion and position on the market without hesitation. The casinos like to see the newbies win their first hand, so does the market If it were easy, everyone would be rich. Don’t fall in love with your position and the less you talk about your position, the easier it is to let it go. And if your position is working for you, keep your hand over your mouth, until you have closed the position. There will be time enough for bragging after you put your kids through college. Egos don’t last long on the floor.

    Understand that day trading is a Zero Sum game. Longer term, the market has an upward bias, but when adjusted for inflation, reverts back to close to zero as well.
    When the bell rang Friday, half the players were willing to buy the S&P a dime below 1025.21 and and half were willing to sell it a dime above. Understand the animal you are dealing with.

    You can watch CNBC 24 hours a day and you will get a similar 50/50 take from the experts that they parade through there. Most of the time, i have the financial news on, but the volume off. Learn to think for yourself. I have a couple of people who use to annoy the hell out of me calling me everyday to talk pick my brain. But I finally realized that I needed to hear from these people to make sure that they didn’t agree with the position I was thinking about taking. I trust they don’t read Traders Narrative, because they are the best indicators I have. I get similar input from my post here. If everyone agreed with me, we wouldn’t have a market. Misery loves company, but think for yourself and don’t follow the herd. My most profitable trades are usually the hardest ones for me to put on. You need to understand this. Were you able to throw a curveball when you behind in the count? Those that make it to the big leagues can. It is not easy to go against the crowd, but important that you have that personality trait that allows you to do so.

    Speaking of CNBC. If the person being interviewed represents a brokerage firm, or a ‘long only’ institution, you would be well advised to turn it off and study. If they have a record of making money in both kinds of market, you may want to give a listen.

    Again back to Risk Management. You have to be willing to take lots of small losses. Sometimes your original trade turns out correct after you are stopped out, deal with it, it’s part of the game. Players who make a habit of doubling up on losses, have great cocktail stories, but eventually get taken out of the game. If you double up on every stock that is 50% down from where you bought it, you will probability profit on the majority of your trades, but it is just a matter of time until, you catch one that is going to zero. Do you know how many times a stock going to zero gets cut in half on it’s way to zero? Don’t stay up too late doing the Math. It only take one of those to put you out of the game. If you can be right 55% of the time on a daily basis and cut your losses short on the days you are wrong, you can play a long time.

    Develop a system that you understand and concentrate on knowing all the nuances of your system, rather than trying to know a little bit about everything. Develop a system that fits your personality. And it is almost guaranteed that your system will not work as good going forward as over the period you tested it on, so most importantly, have a well thought out risk management system that will help you deal with trading circumstances that you have not simulated in your testing. Intra day loss, management, intramonth management and adjust exposure for the volatility of the market. Remember that it is better to be out and wishing you were in, than to be in and wishing you were out. Play to play again. Cut losses and let your profits run. I recently quoted, Jesse Livermore, Men who can be right and sit tight are uncommon. You often here the quote (especially from your brokers), that no one ever went broke taking a profit. That is true, but no one ever got rich taking 10% profits in a 100% bull market.

    Back to being humble, Trading is like playing cornerback in the NFL, if you can’t take getting burned and then having to line back up tomorrow and play again, you are in the wrong game. You have to have the ability to learn from your mistakes but somehow also have a short memory. Make sure your wife can deal with it as well or even better yet leave it at the office. And play it both ways, don’t get too euphoric when your own a roll, and don’t get too depressed when your in a drawdown.

    It is important to learn from history, but understand the market is not a Science. If it were, Einstein would have taken everyone’s money. It’s as much psychology as science. Bull markets end for different reasons. Sometimes the market gets overpriced, sometimes its competition from other investment opportunities (primarily interest rates., sometimes the cash dries up, sometimes the economy turns over, sometimes the economy gets overheated. Regardless of the variables in play, the tape can often give you a clue, listen to it.

    Always remember the market is always right and if you are on the other side, You Are Wrong, no matter how much homework you have done. It may be six months later before you understand what the market was trying to tell you, but sometimes it sees things that you can not. I know many value investors that swore off stocks in 95, 10 years later they were proven correct, but they missed the greatest decade since the 20’s. And conversely, beware of the saying ‘this market is different’, ala the technology boom. You can find the same quote in the WSJ in early 1929.

    Respect and learn from your elders. There are some lessons that only come through experience. No matter how much you study a chart, you will never know what it is like to trade on Oct 19, 1987, until you have been there and felt the feeling in your belly.

    And of course, do your homework, endless studies have been done, documenting the utility of “The Trend is your Friend” and “Don’t Fight the Fed”. Again, learn from history. It is well documented.

    It’s midnight here, have a good one.

  533. 533 rich

    Scott, I would like to speak to you. What is you feeling about bright and Echo? I do believe any trader can be profitable and do well. However, Hedge funds, are no always the smart money. Here is my email

  534. 534 Dipak

    Wayne ur article is good…level headed talk. That’s what is required in this business. Specially I liked about the CNBC 50/50 thing and ‘willing to admit they are stupid, and change their opinion and position on the market without hesitation.’ kind of attitude is best to survive. Pls email me at

  535. 535 BruceD

    Thanks Reeseinv - I don’t know much about it all yet, as I said, but I went to the CYGROUP website. They have an online store where they charge $9000 for training (9 Video course). Their support seems strong, and maybe I’m missing some memership discount area on the site, but it sure seems excessive.
    So no one has heard of Benchmarq Trading Partners?

  536. 536 Robinson

    Does anyone know anything about keystone trading group. Good or Bad i would like to know?

  537. 537 Fernando

    Great Post wayne!

    It took me a year to learn what you know. And to tell you the truth, it’s priceless!

    And I Still have not find a post stating a better firm then CYgroup and Star Alliance.
    So from where it stand, CYgroup is still the best for day trading, and Star Alliance the best for swing trading, in the prop firm business!

  538. 538 Jacob


    I’m here to tell you something I’ve learned as a trader, I’ve been trading successfully in the markets for 1 year and a half. I’ve been offered to trade for firms and to speak for seminar companies. Of course I’ve had the crazy big drawdown in my account and learned from them. I developed my own systems and strategies. I started trading with 5k a year and a half ago. 6 months 1,000% using options, calls and puts. I’ve paid substantially over 100k in education to other mentors. Now I trade other people’s money 50/50 split, working on my own hedge fund. Now I’m trading stocks, futures and options, I don’t trade much forex.

    I do personal one on one coaching. I’ve trained 12 students successfully and my understanding is the following:

    You can’t give one explanation to big crowds, reason is everyone is standing in a different psychological place, therefore everyone will understand things differently. People who want to learn how to trade should work on a one on one basis not in a class environment. I do personal one on one coaching real market hours.

    Reason is everyone is working with different scenario. Different size account. Different goals and different needs. I know people who want to make 500 dollars a day with a 200k account. That’s fairly easy. On the other hand I have customers that have only 25k and need 3k a day. That’s possible but you need a specific plan, and will take time to develop and make sure you have the right strategies, you will be going a little against money management and need to be aware. I always focus on small drawdown and money management. I have different systems dealing with technical indicators and candlesticks. It works for me and I’ve been able to teach others. I’ve been able to teach traders what they need to know. I love trading and the simplicity of it. I usually trade only 1hr or less actively in the markets mon to Friday. The rest of the day I work on making better my strategies and systems. The key to successful trading is the following:

    If you need the money to survive, most likely you will fail.
    If you don’t have mentorship from successful traders, most likely you will fail.
    If you don’t have a plan, most likely you will fail.
    If you think is easy, most likely you will fail.

    It takes determination, willingness to learn from mistakes, strategies, timing entries and exits, money management, a plan, knowing your risk, focusing always on worst case scenario, working with the right amount of capital, understand how your system performs in different markets. Manage fear and greed, being mechanical, being objective. and many more things,

    I know people that teach seminars. 100 people at 30k is 3Million dollars. Not bad for a 3 day seminar. I don’t believe in that because many people will fail, bottom line. I deal with integrity and a realistic approach. My goal is to help you develop your own DNA with the markets. You might be a great scalper, gap trader, trend trader, mommentum trader, swing trader. It’s my job to help you figure that out. I love trading and helping others, by developing not only new students but relationships with people all over the world.

    If you are interested my e-mail is the following:

  539. 539 Fernando

    I still believe for a new trader, is best to be in a traders environment. You will learn a lot.

    And, I would still love to hear feedback from some of you guys experience in each prop firm. What was the rate, commission, etc.

    Thank you for your time.

    Any question, you can contact me at:

  540. 540 hwan

    hey just wondering does anyone know of any proprietary firms in san francisco?

  541. 541 Fernando

    To The webmaster who put this article up.
    Some of your website links to another prop firm are outdated.

    For example:
    T3 Capital (result of Sperling & Nexis merger) is no longer working.

    There is a T3LIVE, and I am not sure if it’s the same as the T3 Capital.
    Their website is as follow:

    Would love to see this updated.

    Thank you very much, for your hard work!

  542. 542 Babak

    Thanks Fernando, I’ll look into it.

  543. 543 Amanda

    T3Live is the best place if you are trading remotely - you will learn so much and they have a multitude of traders who will help you recognize your own strengths and weaknesses as you will learn and observe what they do and don’t do. Scott redler is the most consistent on this site and he is a great person to learn from and follow as well. Also, as far as prop firms are concerned - if you are looking to remote trade this shouldn’t neccessarily concern you. BUT if you want to trade with other people, try looking up Assent. You will have to go through a process of licensing - but they are a pretty good broker dealer, although I am not a fan of Anvil platform per se…but maybe they have since added others. Otherwise hop on Craigslist and see if there are others. Good luck.

  544. 544 Jesse

    Does anybody know any prop firms in Washington DC?

  545. 545 Fernando

    Thx Amanda for the info on T3LIVE! Looks like a really interesting place.

  546. 546 Steve D

    I’m living in Ft. Lauderdale and want to join a “prop-trading firm” nearby. Does anyone know of one? Someone told me about Prism Trading however I do not see them on the above list. If anyone can advise I would appreciate it.

  547. 547 Futures Trader

    Are there ANY prop shops that also specialize in futures trading as well?

  548. 548 Babak

    Steve, Prism seems to be a sub-llc of Dimension, or at least related to them.

  549. 549 Warren

    Hi Scott (12 year veteran),

    I wanted to start a career as a trader. As of the moment I am considering joining a prop firm. I have 5 months of experience in trading through an online broker called Tradeking. I really wanted to learn and understand what are the important characteristics and skills to become a good trader. Any advice?

    please email me at


  550. 550 jason

    i’m in cleveland ohio. any prop firms here?

  551. 551 Spencer

    Has anyone hear of BlueShift Capital? They are offering remote services but i can’t seem to find any info on them at all.

  552. 552 Babak

    Spencer, never heard of them and it seems neither has google

  553. 553 Kirk

    I just started a prop firm locally..I would like to talk to some people who are in a prop firm and serious about this to discuss strategies. i developed some methods and started to see patterns and results lately.

  554. 554 Jonny

    Is anyone know about forex prop trading firm in Los Angeles?

  555. 555 KC

    Does anyone know of a prop firm that clears through Interactive Brokers? Thanks

  556. 556 Ari

    If your looking for a good remote prop trading firm, I’m using this place called KM Capital Management. You can check out their web site and contact someone from over there.

  557. 557 Noel

    Hey folks i work for a Prop trading firm in India from last 3years trust me life from last one year is horrifying ..which ever trading strategy u follow it will not work in the present mkt and dont understand how long this will cont…feel like quit trading but its an Addiction cant do that….but other wise i feel i need a change of place rather….???

  558. 558 SB


    Anyone know of prop firms with U.S. India, HK, Korea and Taiwan market access?

  559. 559 Noel

    ABove is the list of Prop firms and if u want to trade Remote u need to filter companies from the above list..!!

  560. 560 Dexter

    Does anyone know anything about M&N trading?

    Training is unpaid, lasts 1-3 months… 50/50 payout with no capital contribution.

    Any comments?

  561. 561 LA

    Ignore Jacob above

    “I’ve been trading successfully in the markets for 1 year and a half. I’ve been offered to trade for firms and to speak for seminar companies.”

    Trading for a year and a half and sought after by others? I don’t think so.

  562. 562 Dave

    Anyone know of NY-based shops that provide seed capital like some of the other firms mentioned but focus on commodity futures trading? Much appreciated.

  563. 563 John

    If anyone is interested in a prop firm where you can trade all products (stocks, options, futures) with more of a long term focus as well as intra-day trading, feel free to contact me. You will have to deposit capital. No series 7 required. We offer both remote and office trading.

  564. 564 Doug A. G.

    Joining a prop firm to day trade is a good place to start especially if you can’t meet the minimum amount required to day trade. But discipline must exercise. Trading 100 shares at a time is a good minimum number of shares to trade. You can increase your shares incrementally when you are comfortable enough and have developed your confidence.

  565. 565 tt

    thanks for the info.

    by the way, T3 Capital is now

  566. 566 Babak

    tt, thanks, since they’re not a prop firm anymore, I’ve removed them from the list

  567. 567 Alice

    I need a help, is there someone knows that some peop-firms in Switzerland,or Geneva? How can I find a list? Thanks a lot!!!

  568. 568 Alice

    I mean that, in Switzerland, are there some prop firms? And how could I find the list of them? I’m doing a project now, but I can’t find the informations about this. Thinks

  569. 569 JR3000

    Any info on FSC Capital ( Just wanted to know if they are legit. Attended a webinar and they offer the ability to piggyback off of their traders remotely. There is a fee of course but they offer unlimited webinar courses. Thanks in advance.

  570. 570 Dmitry

    Hello everyone! I’ve read a lot on this page and found the environment that reigns here as very friendly.
    I would like to ask opinion of those who live and trade in the western world, i.e. most of you. The matter is that I’m Russian and I used to work for about 2 years at the Moscow office of Swift Trade as a broker-risk-manager and a trainer. I’ve never traded myself for making money unless some practice in order to understand the platform we used and the market, but I’ve learned the psychology of trading and have done well in teaching other students who were to become the intra-day scalpers. I was giving them the basics that helped them to manage their risks and profits and therefore would let them become a successful traders. Now I’m wondering whether it would be possible for me to find an appropriate position at some western prop company abroad (not in Russia). I will appreciate if someone expresses their sober opinion on this subject. At the same time if anyone wants me to share my knowledge concerning Swift - feel free to ask your questions.

    Regards, Dmitry.

  571. 571 Babak

    Alice, I don’t know of any prop firms in Switzerland. Try searching the yellow pages or call local brokers and ask (I’m assuming that you’re there yourself).

    JR, can you explain what you mean by “piggyback”? I’m not familiar with them but it makes me wary that they don’t have any addresses for their locations.

  572. 572 Steve

    I see a lot of people are asking about info. on remote prop firms. The place I have been using remotely for the past year is called , I think its on the above list. I have had no problems with them over the past year. I have used a few other prop firms in the past and had many bad experiences. I would recommend this one to use to remotely trade with.

  573. 573 Fernando

    Thanks Steve for your info on the firm!

    And 100% Payout Ratio is always sweet! :)

  574. 574 JR3000

    Babak, Piggybacking is allowing the trainees to watch senior traders screens as they execute trades throughout the day. Essentially, you can make the same trades because you are watching them real-time.

    As for addresses, their base is Houston. The rest are just places they stop in every month or so and teach a class in person for their trainees in that particular city.

  575. 575 Sean

    2 questions)

    1. which of these firms do not require a capital committment (most that do are just chop shops that just take your money)

    2. is there any way to separate these by state or region?

  576. 576 Darts

    Anyone have any experience with or knowledge of Broad Street Trading? Considering opening an account with this NY firm.

  577. 577 John

    Broad St Trading is an excellent firm. Been with them for two years and i recommend them. If you are in New York, they have a small office on Broad St. Good luck !

  578. 578 James B

    Hey all. Thanks for excellent comments. I’m strongly considering being a prop trader but this blog has got me worried. It seems like if you work AT the prop firm, they are going to want you to trade a certain way and maybe a higher frequency than you might want (since they make money off that). But could you trade remotely and use your own strategies and possibly hold positions overnight? Any comments on this would be helpful.

  579. 579 Dmitry

    Hey, James B.
    I guess you’re right. if you’re going to take advantage of using someone’s capital, you’ll have to pay your toll on that. I used to work at Swisttrade and can tell you that they would not let you apply any strategy but scalping and never let you hold overnights. It was also impossible to trade remotely since their work stations in each branch are enclosed in separate networks that have their own servers, routers and firewalls.
    BTW, if you are not afraid to deal with Russians, you can join or group :) I think we can offer something appropriate. So let me know if it’s interesting for you.


  580. 580 Fernando

    Hey James B. there are different firms out there! Some will let you do only scalping, others over night trading, and others will let you use your own strategies!

    It’s about finding what suit your needs!

    Just read some of the feedback some traders have given in their experience at a firm.
    Cy Group, Dimension Trading Group, Equity Trading Capital, KM Capital, Star Alliance Capital One, and T3 Live have been some of the many firms i have hear people discuss about!

    There are plenty out there, but all you have to do is contact them and talk to the recruiter to find out their policy!

    Good luck in your journey!

  581. 581 Stephen

    Would like to know more about what Russia has to offer other than Ovechkin! Are you as good???

    To all,
    I’ve been with a Prop firm for about a year. I am a Canadian and trade remote. 100% payout on 10X margin, except for the newly introduced requirements on leveraged ETFs (QID/QLD).

    I am very pleased with the firm, other than small, understandable technical issues which surface from time to time. They use the Sterling Pro platform.

    Despite conservative trading that cashes in by day’s end, and despite never coming close to placing my prop firm in jeopardy, margin offerings have been decreased to 8X. I am not sure but believe the issue is internal to their perations, not my “risk factor”.

    Can someone recommend to me a firm that offers 10X with some of the basic offerings outlined above. I don’t have two weeks to research all the firms listed above!!!!
    You can answer off this site if you wish.

    (good work on the site guys, keep it up)

  582. 582 David

    Hi, anybody has problems with this company Next Level Trading Capital, LLC
    36-60 Main Street, 2nd Fl.,
    Flushing, NY 11354
    It seems they shut down from the beginning of the month, and I cannot get my deposit back. Their website is down, and nobody is answering the phones. I would also like to hear from anybody else who is trading with them. Any legal advise is also welcome, thank you for your help.

  583. 583 Babak

    David, sorry to hear that. The site is offline as you say. It is registered to a Jonathan Wong at the same address you provide. I assume you’re not in NY to physically go to their offices? did they just disappear? you don’t have any contacts there?

    The way back machine shows they probably went offline late last year or early this year… so when did you notice the site was gone? btw, in google’s cache I’m seeing remnants of the site in chinese!

  584. 584 Robinson

    Hey everyone, Its been a while since i’ve been in this amazing room, but i have a question, I’ve called most of the places on this list and they all seem to offer similar things. So my question is:

    What are 5 things that I should know about joining any Prop Shop?

  585. 585 David

    Hi Babak,

    I am not in the US, you assumed that right. Also they changed the website in Chinese somewhere back in June, but the most interesting thing is I cannot find any other traders’ complaints on the internet, how is that possible, and do you know what actions I have to take to claim my deposit.

  586. 586 Babak

    David, I would go on forums like elitetrader to find other traders, if you don’t know anyone from the firm already. You can contact the SEC, FINRA, etc. and see what they say. Please keep others in the loop by updating us on what you find. This is really strange. Best of luck :)

  587. 587 Dipak

    Hey Robinson,
    First check if it is not a fly by night firm (See what happened to David)
    Second Leverage
    Third Stable and reliable trading platform
    Fourth Check if offices are well established and backed by strong clearing house and back office
    Fifth Study Stochastics and MACD signals.

  588. 588 David

    Thank you Babak,

    if you know any other useful information how I can claim my money, please let me know. I will keep you in the loop.

  589. 589 Fernando

    Wow bro, sorry to hear that!

    But glad your letting us know!

    I will ask about and tell some people about it as well!

    Next Level Trading Capital, LLC sounds familiar. I think they used to be with Dimension Brokerage, so will ask about them!

  590. 590 David

    Thank you Fernando, any information regarding the current status of that company is welcome, appreciate your help!

  591. 591 Robinson

    Hey Dipak, what do you think about Broad street trading?

    Also can you be more specific about some of the things you mentioned?

    Leverage - what should leverage range from.

    Platform - what platforms should a established company use?

    How or where, do I go to find out about a companies back office or if they are backed by a clearing house?

  592. 592 Dipak

    I have not worked with Broad St, they seem to be around from a long time.
    10 times leverage sounds good….more than that before seeing profit will be a catalyst for your trading demise.
    Platforms you got to test them for freezing etc. Simpler the better. Don’t use the ones with too many fancy GUI’s, DOS based is cool.
    You got to ask them about the clearing house and then you can research them if are being used by big institutional brokers etc.
    Personally I use TradeStation for charting and research…the fee is $250 per month but it is worth it. The charts are crystal clear and accurate and lot of tools to analyze.

  593. 593 John

    Hello there
    I would like to ask you whether you know anyone working or with any kind of experience,…,anything about prop trading in futures in any of these places in Madrid, Spain:
    - digitrade
    - transmarket group
    - saxon financials
    - Banco Santander Central Hispano (BSCH)
    - Caja Madrid

  594. 594 John

    Broad Street is an excellent firm as i’ve been remote w/ them for some time. I’ve been to their office and they are a great group to work with. You go visit them in NYC if you are able.


  595. 595 John 2

    What is the percentage of money required for the trader to put in their positions if trading remotely with Broad Street? Is it like an arcade where all the money for the position comes from traders’ own money? Or, Do traders only risks a certain percentage of their position because the other percentage corresponds to money coming from the firm?

  596. 596 Robinson

    Hey room, I wanted to know if anyone knew where I can find a list of stocks that are 10.00 or less, I’m going to be joining a firm soon and want to start tracking them.

  597. 597 Babak

    Robinson, there are many free screens and filters on the net that you can use. As well, I’m sure that the firm would also have their own from the software they use. Here’s one from Marketwatch which was suggested by Dmitry (his original comment was caught by the spam filter unfortunately).

    Declan also suggests the Zignals screener

  598. 598 Robinson

    ok, now I think I’m finally overwhelmed….I’m looking for a company that offers great training, professionalism, the ability to move up,and cares about the success of new traders. I just want somewhere I can go win! If that makes sense drop me a line on your thoughts and suggestions.

  599. 599 Veteran

    Hi all,

    I traded a lot back in the 90’s and earlier this decade but I have been out of the game for more than a couple years now. I am researching firms and looking to get back into the business. My series 7 is still good but as I am researching I see a lot of firms don’t require a license now. It seems every firm I contact has a habit of bad mouthing other firms and trying to leave the impression that they will be around long term and others won’t. This is understandable from a sales point of view.

    Firms that require a license have a legitimate claim in this regard it would seem to me. I don’t want to let mine expire so I am more inclined to go with a firm that requires a license versus one that does not. Ones that do license seem to imply that it is just a matter of time before regulators crack down on ones that don’t, at least here in the states where I am.

    Can someone here give some insight into the legality and longevity of these prop firms, licensed or not and what the future holds? Great blog by the way.

  600. 600 Declan Fallon

    Appreciate the mention Babak.

    Robinson: Never worked for a Prop firm so no personal experience here. Brett Steenbarger has, but I think he makes a point of not mentioning the firms he has done work for - you could try search his blog and see if any are mentioned.


  601. 601 Robinson

    Hey room, Just wanted to know if anyone was familiar with Paramount Equity Partners? They sound pretty good, its only 3,000 to join the firm, but I wanted to know the thoughts of some of the more seasoned traders that frequent this room.

    Also, I’ve found a place that offers trading with no money down, but I haven’t researched them, but I figured this room has blessed me, so I wanted to return the favor…….

    This is a list of minority owned businesses;jsessionid=LL12VHFIEG01JQE1GHOSKHWATMY32JVN?open=true

  602. 602 Dipak

    Avatar Trading/Securities and Dimension Trading give a good deal in NYC area. Very helpful people.
    They have remote trading available and I would suggest to everybody not to trade without looking at the Technicals on TradeStation. The fee is worth it. Try using MACD and Stochastics.
    Good luck.

  603. 603 Paul T

    anyone know of a REAL proprietary trading firm that operates in the WASHINGTON DC area (maryland/northern VA)? by real i don’t mean the places where you put up capital, or freak out if you lose 50k — experienced trader with 10 years in business…may have to move to the area but over the years I have not been able to find any real firm in this area. thx

  604. 604 lilmsmuffet

    I am currently trading for a private person. I have no capital investment. I am compensated 10% of the gains on the account. When I incur any losses, these are deducted from the gains. I have to “make up” the losses before I get paid anything. My question is should trading commissions also be deducted from the account gains? I feel like this would mean I am paying the service fees on the account. I would like to know how others in this similiar situation handle this issue. We are trying to come to a decision, and are basically looking for “industry standards”. Thanks!

  605. 605 Stephen

    From my perspective, it should be net, after all fees. You have to trade in such a fashion that commisssions, etc are considered.

    That having been said, your 10% is inferior to what you shoud obtain. Heck, I will put up the capital and give you half! On a, serious and do not understand how you can succeed with only 10%.

  606. 606 Wayne

    CTA’s normally get performance fee that are normally net of fees, so that the trader doesn’t generate excessive trades.
    regarding fee levels, everything is negotiable, normally range from 10 to 30%, depending on demand and capacity.
    Fee structure I like, is trader gets paid annually,
    10% of performance for first 10% generated
    20% of performance for second 10% generated and
    30% for all perfomance above 20% annual.
    Most clients would be glad to pay the 30% at the year end under these circumstances.
    Some savvy institutions will negotiate deals to protect themselves from drawdowns right after paying yearend fees, by paying them out in increments over months, only if trader is still net new highs
    Everything is negotiable and subject to laws of supply and demand, the better traders can be more demanding, new trading programs often take seed money at 10% just to generate a needed track record.
    A lot of traders get paid 1-2% maintenance fees. But if your not making money, they are not going to hang around and pay maintenance fees, so I have always viewed as moot point

  607. 607 Ayla

    Same as previously asked - anyone know of a decent prop shop in DC (VA, MD) area?? I’m a newbie in trading…

  608. 608 zach

    Yeah, for a decent remote prop shop I would go with . From my own experience they have been pretty good..

  609. 609 Fernando

    So has anything been done about the Next Level Trading Capital, LLC Scam?

    Have the partners of Next Level been caught and apprehended?

    And most importantly has the traders been able to get their money back?

  610. 610 lilmsmuffet

    Stephen and Wayne

    Thanks so much for the input. I found it very useful and definitely used it to restructure my situation. It is greatly appreciated.

  611. 611 Jacob

    Hey guys I have a question,
    So, after you have been trading for a prop firm for a while and you are making money. Doesn’t it make more sense for you to go on your own? Open your own account, say for exmpl: Interactive Brokers, Think or swin, or optionsxpress and make money for yourself. Instead of splitting money with the Prop firm.
    I have never traded at a prop firm and I’m just wondering. Ive always traded myself and I handle some private capital at a 50/50 split. What would make you stay at a prop firm for a long time?
    buying power?
    strategies being implemented that you can’t implement on your own?

    Thank you in advance

  612. 612 Jide

    Hello People,

    Great infomation here. Anybody know a reliable prop trading company in Canada?

  613. 613 Hithodgy

    Does anybody know whether Trillium is a good place to get started for a complete newbie to prop trading?

    Are they a chop shop?

    What are some good shops in NYC that do not require you to put up any capital and provide free training?

  614. 614 Mike G

    Trillium is a pretty solid firm, I know a few traders that use to be with them, good place if you are already experienced and looking to do your own thing. Mostly experienced guys there swinging for the fences. I hear they also use to give a draw on your profits, not sure if it’s still the case. I just signed up with a new firm based out of Houston, excellent packages for experienced remote traders. Management seems to be solid and knowledgeable.

  615. 615 Nizar


    I’m an experienced trader, mainly US Equities, I’m looking for a prop firm to give me 20:1 intraday leverage. I can offer a track record from my broker 6-12 months if required.

    I’m hoping to put down $25-50k and get access to $500k-$1m intraday.

    I’m obviously not after “training” or for a firm to teach me to trade “their way”.

    Can anybody list some names of reputable firms based in NYC which allow remote trading and would be appropriate for me?



  616. 616 Fernando

    Nizar, Echo Trade is a good firm for large deposits, experience trader! But they require series 7!

    As far as a good firm for large deposits with no series 7 in NYC…i am not sure. But you can check out JC Trading for remote trading, based out of Michigan!

    But overall, if you have the series 7, then Echo Trade is the place to go for larger deposits!

    Let me know, how it goes!

  617. 617 Nizar


    I forgot to add.
    I don’t have a Series 7 and don’t wish to get one.
    But thanks for the comments.


  618. 618 Fernando

    Nizar, most of the bigger firms where you want to have multi million dollars account will require series 7!

    So is best to get series 7!

    But if you just want to settle at 500k to 1 million for the rest of your life, then any descent prop firm will do!

    And in NYC you can try to check out Dimension.

  619. 619 Mike G


    I am trading remote with now. I was previously trading remote with T3 and Echo which I didn’t care for their remote technical support. Although PTG is a new trading company, they have the most competitive package I have came across yet. They only take on experienced traders, so far so good.

  620. 620 Nizar

    Slow and steady wins the race.

    My system would generate very nice P/L numbers at 1million shares a month anyway. No need for me to be greedy before I even start.

    And the way I see it, I can always go back and do the Series 7 down the track if I absolutely need it.

    MIke G,
    Cheers for the recommendation, I have sent them an email.

  621. 621 Andreas

    To apply for the Series 7, doesn’t one need a sponsor firm? If so, how does one go about getting a sponsor? thanks

  622. 622 Tim

    Has anyone recently heard of Ocean View Capital LLC? Any recent negative or positive experiences with them? I’ve interviewed with one of their sub LLC’s (ESRQ Capital LLC) and I like the guys but am concerned a little by earlier comments on this thread about Tuco and Ocean View being reformed Tuco, as well as’s articles about prop trading firms in general.

    ESRQ seems to have the best deal out there from all the prop firms I’ve researched, and seem to be actual traders, and seem to be making good trading calls daily (I’ve only been watching that one week) and seem to be genuinely concerned about helping their traders succeed, and they too let you watch a live trader if you want to.

    Any comments are appreciated. Thanks all for the previous comments on this thread - they have been very helpful.

  623. 623 Jeremy

    Anybody know of a prop firm offering black box trading using tradestation? I have multiple automated systems developed but need to leverage my existing capital or trade firm capital. I have a series 7 license.

  624. 624 Nizar


    I know a trader that is at Ocean View. He had nothing but good things to say about them.


    Check out Bear Capital LLC.

  625. 625 Al

    Does any one have an opinion on TITLE TRADING …. as a company based in Montreal Canada.

  626. 626 John

    Does anyone heard of GOWcorporation in Bangkok?
    They ask money on arrival, what do I have to be scared of? Is it ok? What do I have to check on contrat?

  627. 627 Hithodgy

    Has anybody here heard of FX Direct Liquidity? They are located in Boston and Fl. They claim to provide training and ask NO initial capital contribution.

    Are these guys reputable?


  628. 628 Babak

    Hithodgy, doesn’t pass the smell test for me. The fact that they stole a trading station setup picture from an options trader in Toronto tells you pretty much all you need to know. A reputable firm wouldn’t stoop to such a clueless and classless antic.

  629. 629 Ralph

    Does anybody know where I could find a good junior trading assistant position in South Florida?

  630. 630 Hithodgy

    Thanks Babak!

    Right now I am looking into Paramount Equity Partners in NYC. They offer a 50/50 split and require an initial capital contribution of $3k. This will afford the newbie 2 weeks of live, hands on training with an experienced trader. They say you will go live starting on Day 1 of training! You will be cut off if you lose $200 for the day and can trade again the following day.

    They say they will refund the 3k /- any losses or gains incurred during the time spent trading if you decide trading is not for you.

    Is this a good deal? Are these guys reputable?

    Here is a demo of the training and software they provide. Around 25:00 or so the trainer explains the compensation and what not.

    What do you guys think?

    Thanks so much for your help!!!!!

  631. 631 Fernando

    Quick question here.

    With Obama new plan for the financial sector, how will that hurt the traders?
    Will most firm have to close down because of this?

    This is in regards after reading this article from bloomberg!

    GMO’s Grantham Says Obama Plan to Ban Prop Trading ‘Good Stuff’
    By Sree Vidya Bhaktavatsalam

  632. 632 Fernando

    Uh never mind my question!

    Article state about trading floors at banks, like City Bank, Bank of America, etc etc. Not the type of firms we have here!

    Should read more clearly next time! :)

  633. 633 Stephen

    I have the displeasure to report that WTC Trading is closing its doors this Friday. I have been trading with them for about a year and am extremely upset with the closure. They were good to me.
    I am a Canadian and as such did not require a Series 7 to trade with them. Their fees were reasonable and they provided me 10X margin. I was remote and on my own, so I received 100% of my earnings. For me, it was the perfect scenario.
    I gave up a successful career in the oil industry to trade full time, so if anyone can recommend to me a suitable firm that can provide similar benefits, it would be appreciated.
    There is a possibility they could regroup in the next few weeks, but that outcome is still up in the air.
    Thanks guys for the help.

  634. 634 Fernando

    Stephen, if you like you can check out JC Trading!

    Here is a brief breakdown of their fee structures!

    100k buying power on a 5k deposit

    commission tiered down on volume
    .0055 per share 0-30k shares a day
    .0045 per share 50-75k shares a day
    .0035 per share 100k shares a day
    100% payout
    $30 a month for all 3 exchange data fee (nyse/naz and amex)
    no software fee to use laser
    full ecn pass thru

    profits you can withdraw anytime

    if you prove to be profitable within 5-6 months, we will allocate more buying power to your account based on performance

    trading records not needed
    (877) 252-1230 TOLL FREE
    (888) 726-8643 FAX

  635. 635 Fernando

    Oh I forgot, since you are Canadian, and don’t need series 7 then you can also check out Echotrade! A good firm for large deposit!

  636. 636 Fernando

    Sorry for this other message! It might seems like spam, but since i don’t know how to edit my previous comment i have to write another one!

    So just wanted to mention this other firm that was mention by a trader here:

    Mike G Jan 17th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    I am trading remote with now. I was previously trading remote with T3 and Echo which I didn’t care for their remote technical support. Although PTG is a new trading company, they have the most competitive package I have came across yet. They only take on experienced traders, so far so good.

  637. 637 Stephen

    Thanks Fernando. Do you know the trading platforms on each?

  638. 638 Fernando

    uhh for JC Trading I know they have 3 choices!
    Lightspeed, Laser, and Sterling!
    Lightspeed and Laser are free, while Sterling cost like 200 or something a month!

    PTG and Echotrade, I am not sure as i never asked!

  639. 639 Hithodgy

    Can somebody PLEASE reply to my post from 1/25/10?? Thanks so much.

    BTW….anybody know whether or not WTS Propriety Trading Group in NYC is a reputable firm? They charge $200 a month for Sterling. Does this seem reasonable?

    They don’t charge for training nor is there an initial capital contribution. Profits split 50/50.

  640. 640 Babak

    Stephen, thanks for the news re WTC, can you provide any more details? what is the reason behind the closure/reorg?

  641. 641 Stephen

    I spoke to WTC once in receipt of their email after market hours. They explained to me the reasons for their closure and I will try to convey what was said, as best I can given my ignorance of your laws.
    Apparently you American guys have a regulation whereby daytraders are obliged to put up $25,000. As I understand it, many prop firms get around this regulation by having one account that meets the regulations, but in turn the main account has several sub-contractors who trade under the main account. Does that make sense?
    I am reluctant to name the clearing house on a public posting, but they apparently took exception t this practice. It was mentioned to me that the decision was discretionary and WTC is attempting to regroup. I simply hope other clearing houses do not initiate similar decisions as it would ruin many guys like myself, whether we are highly responsible or not.
    I trust that all makes sense.

  642. 642 Nizar

    PTG securities didn’t pass the first test for me ie. they don’t respond to emails.

    My shortlist so far for experienced guys looking to trade automated systems remotely:

    1/ VTrader in NYC.
    2/ Ocean View Capital in La Jolla, San Diego.
    3/ JC Trading in Michigan.

    (No series 7 required for all the above).


  643. 643 Jarris

    Schneider Trading offers excellent training and trader facilitation for every type of Trader (Graduate or Experienced) or Broker.

    Id highly recommend.

    Dont hesitate to get in touch if youd like further info…


  644. 644 Nizar


    Schneider, like PTG, have disappointed me in that they don’t respond to emails.
    I’m was interested to get in touch with their singapore branch.
    If you can help, please send me an email


  645. 645 Nick Austin

    This is a good Prop Trading firm just outside the city, in Great Neck. They have great in -house education, and have a really good structure. They specialize in Market Profile.
    Check out this website:

  646. 646 Hithodgy

    Can somebody PLEASE reply to my post from 1/25/10?? Thanks so much.

    BTW….anybody know whether or not WTS Propriety Trading Group in NYC is a reputable firm? They charge $200 a month for Sterling against any profit you make for the the month. In the event of a losing month they swallow the $200. Does this seem reasonable?

    You get 3-weeks of training for free with no initial capital contribution. You just pay $69/month for various fees associated with trading. Profit split is 50/50. This sounds too good to be true!

    Has anybody here traded with WTS? What is their reputation? I checked elite trader and there were mixed reviews.

    Come on guys somebody here must know something….

  647. 647 Fernando

    Hithodgy, if no one can answer you question, then i suggest you look at elite trader! They have a forum of prop firms!

  648. 648 Forextrader

    Hi there

    You guys have a nice forum here so I decided to pop up and give my two cents

    I trade frorex by myself through a broker for around 3 years and honestly I dont see any benefits in joining a prop company

    All they give you on training is out there over the net for free.

    Their “money”!! The amount ” they let you use” is basically leverage on your deposit. On top of that, they will flood you in fees, etc.

    You will join a whole bunch of “wanna be” traders just like you. Sooner than later you will see that your dream of trading side by side with professionals was a illusion.

    I will suggest you to open up an account with a serious broker and trade part time from your house. As you learn you will be able to trade full time.

    Just remember that people that really know will not teach you, and if you are disciplined and a little smart you can learn by yourself.

  649. 649 Sean

    Does anyone know of any legit prop firms in Washington, DC? Thanks

  650. 650 Babak

    Hithodgy, re your post on JAn 25th on Paramount: do the normal course of due diligence; talk to them; read the contract they want you to sign; go over it with a lawyer; ask them for traders that work with them and talk to them; google the hell out of the firm, principals and everyone else high up you talk to; ask around at elitetrader (as another commentor suggested). Did I miss anything?

  651. 651 Sean

    Forextrader — You have a good point there. Could you recommend any good reading/training thats free over the net or a good book/manual I could find at a bookstore? Recommend any brokers? Thank you

    To the Forum: Still interested in learning of any good D.C. prop firms


  652. 652 Jacob


    I have a few books in mind. I’ve paid over 100k to learn but quite honestly, there is nothing like real trading practice\experience. Having over 5000 hours of real trading experiece helps,and mentors with over 40 yrs of experience in trading is a must.
    Books: Candlesticks by Steve Nison, The best conversations with top traders by Kevin N Marder and Marc Dupee. The disciplined trader by mark douglas, Trade your way to financial freedom. Those are some of the best books I’ve read, I wish I had read them before paying for all this trainning and coaching. The trainning and education has paid for itself but that’s not always the case. One of the good trainnings I’ve taking is VCM Oliver velez, he charges 13k to learn stocks and 13k to learn forex.
    Good brokers I’ve traded with are. Interactive Brokers(I’m not a big fan of their charts, Options Xpress is cool but prices are a little high, Think or Swim is great as well) Remember you can negotiate with this brokers once you do active trading everyday and they will drop their fees.
    Same advise as forextrader earlier,you should start trading part time as other streams of income are important for your psychology. At the beggining is good to not depend or hope for any income as that would put you in the category of the majority of people that fail. Start small without pressure, I suggest you trade Crude oil, mini S$P, Forex,Options and see where you find your DNA, as this instruments don’t require much cash, you can do it on a margin account or cash account. To do active trading on marging account for stocks you need to stay above 25k.

    As far as teaching goes, I teach people from time to time, whoever I want whenever I want. That’s because I like giving back to our country and offer the opportunities I didn’t have to others. Owning an automated trading software,a Car dealership and Real Estate companies help me to stay focused and trade just for fun.

    Take care and I hope this helps!!

    If I can help you further e-mail me at

  653. 653 Fernando

    Good stuff Jacob!

    Keep up the good work! :)

  654. 654 Forextrader


    Go to, their site looks silly but the tutorials there are very good. It is a Forex site but a chart is a chart, after you learn how to trade it you can trade anything in the face of the earth. is a place you can go to hang out with traders and maybe leanr also. BE CAREFUL because there is a lot of scammers there and al always 95% of traders there loose money but with patience you can find the good ones karmostaji and malcomb are the 2 that come to my mind at the moment.

    Good luck!

  655. 655 mike


    A prop trading firm offers me to trade crude oil on metatrader 4 with a 5pip spread; plus a 8pip commission. On every trade that’s a 13cents commission. I am not use to work with prop firm and i don’t know if it worth it.
    On those 8pip commission they give me 2. The custommer keep all the profits.

    Tell me what do you think of this offer please.
    Thank you for your help.


  656. 656 Sean

    Thanks Jacob and Forextrader, I’ve just started dipping my foot in the water, so I got a long way to go. Hopefully after some time I’ll bring good news. Thanks again.

  657. 657 BeamerUSA

    This is an useful informative helpful site. I guess users should only post posts with valid content and not use for thanks and other day today activities not pertaining to information on trading or trading firms. Every post generates an email to the members.

  658. 658 Koodo2

    Good idea BeamerUSA!

  659. 659 Dan

    Just started checking out this blog and saw ‘prop trading’ in the recent comments section, so I decided to swing over here.

    I’ve been trading with JC Trading Group for quite some time now and haven’t come across anything I would consider negative.

  660. 660 Michael

    Has anyone traded with KM Capital Management ? They are on the list above, any extra info would be great.

  661. 661 WuxiGuy

    Hi, Guys,

    Scott, Stephen, Fernando, Jacob, Miguel, Mike, B4banko, Michael, RTB, etc,
    So many great posts here, I bump into this board by onling searching from Yahoo. Anywanys, after reading all these posts, I decided to pop up and tell my own story and hope to hear your insights and recommendations.

    I’m in San Francisco, CA. I have a full time job but off every other Firday.
    I paid $800 to FSC Capital Group ( for training to be a trader, FSC recruits a bounh of people and offer webinar online and offline trainings (2-4 sessions) and will provide capital for you to trade if you turn out to be one of the 10% winner for a contest which lasts for 5-business day. You can use one of their four partner’s brokerage to open an account and/or any prop shop you want, one platform it recommended is Open E Cry has a demo account you can try and practice for free for 2 weeks which simulate the real market with fake money. THe contest is also on this demo platform. You have three chances to win the contest. The OpenECry account (OEC) costs $24.95/month and I was told it needs 5k to open and has 20x leverage. The split is 75/25, you take 75%.

    I didn’t participate the first contest which held on 1/25/10-1/29/10 since I’m not ready simply because I have another job and don’t have a lot of time to do the research. The FSC Capital is recruiting traders from worldwide to do remote trading. The results of contest is posted in the email to every one participated. If you prove you’re consistent and win the top 10%, you’re offered company capital (100k) to trade and don’t have to risk your own money. It said if you win, you take the profit, if you lose, the company take the hit. I’m not sure how exactly it works out since I’m not there yet and want to know if any one here have heard this company FSC Capital and/or have experience with them?

    The result of the contest is sent to individual email account therefore one could not find other traders to discuss what’s going on.

    I may not be able to quit and move onto the “trader” career since I’m not yet confident doing so. But I’m interested to learn the skill of day trading. I’ve lost more than 200x of $800 in the past 10 years but still struggling trading and rarely make a profit. Yes, I’m stubborn and stupid, isn’t it? What should I do?

    Any recommendations welcome. I need someone to kick my butt and say wake up!



  662. 662 James B

    Forgive me if they have already been discussed here, but does anyone have info on AMR Capital Trading out of NYC? Are they a sub-LLC?

  663. 663 Zena

    anyone got any thoughts on the training content at ?

    They seem to be giving out prop trader training content for free!

  664. 664 Pepelu


    I like to work in a proprietary trading house. I live in madrid, some know any proprietary trading house here??? thanks!!

  665. 665 James


  666. 666 Michael
  667. 667 Babak

    Instead of asking about a firm, first please do your own due diligence and then ask for others’ opinions. Or are you actually relying on strangers to make such an important decision as to which firm to work with, for you?

  668. 668 CarlosGA

    I am an energy commodities OTC broker. futures markets. I am hoping somebody can help me to narrow down which of these prop trading firms trade CME and/or ICE otc markets; such as Crude oil, Nat gas, Heat, rbob, and their options. Any other info that will help me network and build my book is so highly appreciated.

  669. 669 halligan

    Has anyone worked with cago trading?
    They are offering good commisons and payout.
    Are they reliable? Any comments appreciated

  670. 670 Johny

    Great thread, a lot of useful info.

    Can anyone please give me more information on these 3 companies - Tibra, IMC and Liquid Capital?

    Anyone went through the whole recruiting process with Tibra? How does their technical interview look like?


  671. 671 Dean

    I recommend PTG Securities, newer firm based out of Houston, awesome deals on sterling

  672. 672 Mike G

    New Jersey Traders

    A Highly recognized Equity Trading Firm is looking to open a state of the art
    trading floor in Morris County, NJ for Experienced Equity Traders.

    We are currently seeking motivated experienced traders
    who desire to participate in the financial markets and gain from group
    synergy. Traders will have the flexibility of either trading remotely or on our
    trading floor in Morris County, NJ utilizing the latest state of the art technologies.

    If you are an experienced trader and would be interested in trading
    from a state of the art trading floor in Morris County, NJ
    Please let us know!

  673. 673 Ed

    Basically these are the best PROP trading firms out there:

    Cy Group
    SMB Capital
    Star Alliance Capital One
    Chimera Securities

    Anyone have information about payout and structures on these ??

    Soldier Capital
    Coastal Trade Securities, LLC

  674. 674 Tim

    I would also add ESRQ Capital, LLC to the best prop-firms list - They are a relatively new group, but are under OceanView Capital - I’ve been signed up with them since Jan1, 2010 and they haven’t steered me wrong yet. They have been extremely helpful - even with coaching. They have an entry level program for traders, with very competitive rates / capital reqts, as well as a dirt cheap commission / payout plan if you don’t want any coaching or just want to do blackbox trading. Sorry if I sound like a bit like a shill, but I’ve been very impressed by these guys’ work ethic after all the other prop firms I reviewed and am quite happy to recommend them as of today.

  675. 675 Fernando

    Ed, under what premises are you stating that these are the best firms out there?

    I think it all depends on the trader’s perspective!

    For example, for me, I love to have 100 payout ratio, with a firm that I can remote trade, and occasionally go and trade at their office!
    While other people might have totally different objectives!

    The firms you posted there are great indeed, but there are a lot more that will satisfy different needs!

    I been with Star Alliance for a couple of years, and it has been good, but it’s not for everybody! Other people want a better software, want remote trading, want training, etc etc. So what I think is best for me, will not be best for you!

  676. 676 Ed

    Fernando…you give me your list of BEST prop firms for day trading w/ 100% payout, .005 or lower commission, low to 0 software/desk fees, remote trading, be able to withdraw your profits weekly and be able to take out your $5k anytime you feel like it……….

    THANKS ! :)

  677. 677 Fernando

    Well for instance i know Echotrade is far better then these for high deposits, leverage, and low commissions! But you also need a series 7!
    So this firm might favor someone with experience and bigger deposits!

    As Echotrade, there are a lot of firms that might fit for different people’s need!

  678. 678 Madhav


    I am currently looking at joining a good prop firm in London/UK that focuses on Commodities.

    They should initially provide intensive training and then allow us to trade live with the company’s capital.

    Could someone provide me some names or links of the top prop firms.


  679. 679 SPI004

    I have just been made aware of a company named Mavercik Trading…I attended their web seminar. Does anyone have any feedback on this company? The upfront mandatory training cost is high ($3k-$7k) plus an additional deposit requirement (supposedly refundable) of $5k. They seems conservative in their approach (options) but I have my concerns. I welcome any feedback. Thanks-

  680. 680 Rob

    does anyone know of good high freq prop shos or hedge funds in London that already have low latency infrastructure in place but also are well capitalised?

    i’ve already spoken to IVC, Transmarket and WQ but they couldnt commit capital from the off.
    i’ve got 5 years trading under my belt and 2 years high freq @ a bank and am not keen to leave London as my HH is telling me to. then again, a recruiter the other day tried to conveince me to go for an interview at teza!

    if anyone can recommend a shop or even a good recruiter that woudl be great

    also - do places like getco and allston have offices in London with support staff or is it more of a remote trading type set up?

    any help woudl be great

  681. 681 Fox

    I’m starting a career in trading in Chicago. I am searching for a trading firm that will provide me the greatest training. Any ideas?

  682. 682 halligan
    another prop that can be added to the list

  683. 683 Babak

    Thanks halligan, added it to the directory.

  684. 684 Jim

    I also recently started trading remote with ESRQ Capital. they are with Oceanview/JC and I’m very happy. Im new to prop trading and they are very helpful. Always there to answer any questions related to trading. I enjoy the daily live interaction/training/trading calls/mentoring to help me better understand equity trading. The best way to learn trading I’ve found is daily interaction and that is what they provide. At first I wanted overnights but Im happy with plently of buying power intraday.

  685. 685 BOBBY

    Ok For all these people giving advise let me sum this up to you. I have been around as a trader for a while. I was a SOES Bandit in the good old days. The easiest way to pick and feel safe with a firm is this: If the firm has been around for 10 years or more that is a good sign in this buisness: So you Have 1) Assent 2) Hold Brothers 3) Dimension Trading 4) Schonfield/Opus

    There may be a few I left I realize and forgive me. But all these little firms I hear mentioned are fly by night. If a firm has been here for 10 years they 1) play by the book and 2) most likely will be here another 10 years

    Just food for thought…good luck

  686. 686 Dipak

    You can include AVATAR TRADING in NYC also in the good guys list.
    I can vouch for Dimension Trading as respectable firm personally.
    Happy Trading…

  687. 687 Johny

    Anyone knows anything about Futex in UK? Especially for recent graduates that are not looking to trade their own capital.


  688. 688 Carl

    Has anyone heard of It’s owned by Rick Albert. They require training but no deposit to trade. They trade futures exclusively - unusual for a prop firm.
    Any opinion would be appreciated.

  689. 689 BeamerUSA

    Hello Guys,
    After daytrading for quite a few years now I have come to conclusion it is best to trade futures namely ES mini futures rather than Equity or say common stocks.
    If any one has come to the same conclusion pls write me a note I will appreciate it and also leads on where I can do proprietory trading on futures if anyone is doing it.

  690. 690 Shawn

    Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone knows anything about Altrion Trading Group. Apparently they don’t require a deposit and they have a training program. I’m guessing you have to pay for the training program, but just wanted to see if anyone knew for sure. Does anyone trade with them? Are they a reliable company and is the training program any good?

  691. 691 BeamerUSA

    Can anyone suggest firms which will let me trade futures namely:E-mini S&P 500 on daytrading kind of leverage and ease?

  692. 692 halligan

    The firms requiring training and no deposit for trading is some kind of trick.
    They get your money namely for training, some 2k some 10k. But believe me, they won’t let you lose more than you paid for “training”.

  693. 693 SurfBali

    I’ve been researching a number of Prop firms in NYC which I believe are good places to receive training.

    My search has brought me to the following firms: SMB Capital, T3 Live, and Broadstreet Trading. Has anyone ever had experience with these firms. If so your thoughts and opinions would be appreciated. All the Best.


  694. 694 San Fran

    Shawn& Halligan,

    Halligan is just making a stereotyping what prop firms are and how they run. I have read many shitty things about each and every firm that’s on the list. I am not recommending you Altrion Trading. I recommend you to call or E-mail Altrion or anyother prop firms and go look at the place talk to the traders who work their and then make a decision. I work in prop firm too and I know many people don’t know anything and they talk shit. my .02 cents

  695. 695 Madhav

    @ Johny: I had looked into the same option with Futex UK. They have a scholarship programme in which you are trained for 4 months and then allowed to trade with their capital.

    I applied for it but was unsuccessful in the last round.

  696. 696 BeamerUSA

    Fellow Traders,
    Here is an excellent site to trade futures with a convenient demo software to try ur hand at… (
    If anybody can get the feel of market direction one can trade ‘ES’ an S&P e mini futures here.
    Take care.

  697. 697 Johny

    Madhav, what was your impression?

    I read on several forums that sometimes they will keep you on training simulator for up to a year, during which time you are not really paid. And after that when you start it takes you some time until you actually start to earn money.

    I’m more interested in HF market makers, then arcades, which they seem to be.

  698. 698 halligan

    I work for different props for last 5 years and happy with props overall.
    But some like VSM, WTS say that you can trade their mmoney without deposit.
    Suppose you paid for training 2k and after training and monthes of simulation you finnaly start trading. If you are losing your money(training fee) you will be defenitely be fired. But if you are clever and lucky enough and make some money, you get divided pay. Ex, u made 10k but due to “you are trading their money” you get split some kind of 50/50,60/40.
    Look at the things from props view. Prop teaches 100 students, gain money 200k. 95% are fired losing almost all their money(they cannot let lose all training fee cos’ tuitor should be paid), 5% that is left make money and prop pay them a part.
    Those props are like casinos always in profit. Actually, I am not against that scheme but I want things to be called by their names.

  699. 699 Lauren

    It is ridiculous to think that a prop firm will not require a capital deposit if you have zero experience. If you have experience and thus a verifiable track record, you can go somewhere where this will not be the case. Training can come from all kinds of less costly sources, as well as monthly subscriptions to sites such as T3 or etc etc.. But all in all, the more you are a part of the market and stay diligent about your building your base of knowledge - you will get somewhere. If you are adamant about not ‘contributing’ a starting capital - then go work for an investment bank or a fund where you will gain insight and exposure into various trading strategies and techniques. Best of luck to all.

  700. 700 Johny

    Lauren, none of the prop trading market makers, such as Jane Street, IMC, Optiver, All Options, etc. require capital deposit. Also, when you start working you are on the salary. I’m not saying that it is a better model (or worse) than arcades or that market making is better strategy than taking directional bets, simply it’s more appealing to some people, especially for people coming out of grad school.

  701. 701 San Fran


    I agree with you. I do understand what you are trying to say about VSM and WTS, I have seen many traders gone through that process in WTS. But only point that I wanted to say that not every firm is WTS and VSM. They are few (as rare as alien siting) firms that want to run a honest prop firms.

  702. 702 Shawn

    San Fran,

    By WTS, you mean WTS Proprietary Trading Group? I’m not sure what VSM is. Do they both have offices in San Francisco? That’s where I’m from. Also, how are their training programs?


  703. 703 halligan

    Actually, VCM(my mistake) Vales capital management, smth like that

  704. 704 John D.

    Anyone here heard of Chimera Securities in NYC? Are they legit? I’ll be having an interview next week.

    Thanks in advance

  705. 705 CleanRae

    I have been reading the postings on here and you guys have a lot of knowledge.

    I am an experienced trader in the Boston area and have been trading retail accounts and my own account for sometime.

    I am looking for a prop firm that will allow me to trade without a capital contribution in the Boston area. I am Series 7 licensed. Obviously I would like it to be a stand up firm.

    Any info would be appreciated!!

  706. 706 BOBBY

    I heard WTS went under …or should I say they were ‘restructured’ to the point of no more trading…anyone else heard that? In respect to Oliver Velez he has several names for his company and there are reasons for that ..i think it used to be VTM and then it changed so somthing else and then somthing else…. if you google him u will see all sorts of interesting comemnts including the NY Fox Channel 5 “Shame on You’ clip….you might be able to get it on yotube… Shame Shame Shame Shame on You….Fox 5 in NYC does it to embarass people with ‘questionable’ buisness practices-

    The bottom line is if you are recieveing leverage on your own funds you need to be registered…not always licensed w/ a S7,-S63 & S55- thou you do at some firms …but you have to at least be ‘registered’ meaning U4 and Finger Printed…otherwise you can not ‘legally’ get leverage/buying power on your funds…

    Sure some places will offer you that….but when you $ dissappears or regulators shut down the firm …you screwed….food 4 though….it happened to me years ago and now I play w/ the real firms….sure they lock your initial deposit up for a year but I don’t care…i plan on trading longer then 1 year out and the bottom line is alot of places let you put in 5k or 10k as a min. So you are not locking up $25k or $50k. And if you cant committ or lock up $3500 or $5k for a year–you shouldnt be day trading…I hate to tell it like it is but thats the truth

  707. 707 Jerald Kusteau

    Hey guys my childhood friend from NY has had some big success as a trader…it finally came one day when he just figured out a no brainer system that has to do with Fibs…so much so that he now teaches the fibs to people after he’s done trading for the day…that has made him all his money…just some simple Fibonacci calculations and stops…he kinda figured it all out…anyway he’s doing a webinar to break it all down on friday…it’s F.R.E.E so please don’t start…LOL. No cost, no pressure and you’ll learn a LOT. Thank me later.

  708. 708 Dmitry

    The shop where I work as a manager trades through WTS and everything looks fine so far.

    Does anybody know the reason Swifttrade doesn’t have any offices in USA?

  709. 709 sexytrader


    Thanks for your post….I - like Dimitry - am looking for an honest prop firm in LA, NY or SF who does not require a capital contribution and who focuses on training.

    I have traded successfully for a Wall Street prop firm for 2 years but had some personal issues to deal with that are now dealt with so I am now returning to trading..

    any advice would be greatly appreciated!

  710. 710 lilo

    Anyone knows of a Prop Firm that could hire remote traders? i am a good trader but i live in mexico , thanks if anyone knows something that could help

  711. 711 Rhett


    I have recently signed with KM Capital Management. They do require a deposit of 5k that they will lock up for a year. However, they do not require me to have a series 7 license. Can someone tell me if this firm is legit before I wire my deposit? Any thoughts or tidbits you might know about this firm would be greatly appreciated! Thank you so much!

  712. 712 Gyulmet

    can someone give me info about swift trade firm, did anyone work there as a trader, how did you like it?

  713. 713 John

    I did hear of swiftrade. I friend of mine told me that one of his friends was working there in-situ for less than a year. The problem came because he had to pay high commissions and as far as he told me it was pretty dificult to get some money out of it. Eventually, he stepped out.

  714. 714 Steve

    Rhett, I have been trading with them for a while, their legit., and I have been with a few places before them.. I don’t believe they lock down your risk deposit for a year or even at all.

  715. 715 Gyulmet

    “The problem came because he had to pay high commissions” you mean him working there he had to pay commisions as a trader? i am thinking of going there to work as a trader, i was hoping to get some info on how is it to work there

  716. 716 John

    Yeah, he had to pay commissions for his trades. Swift trade deducted these commissions from his profit in case there was a profit.

  717. 717 sexytrader

    Has anyone heard of PTC -Pro Trading Course at the CME. They claim to take on new traders but it just seems like they are selling a course . Richard Reagan is the Managing Partner.

    They require $5,000 deposit for Forex and $15,000 for futures….

    any advice would be appreciated

  718. 718 bobby

    Guys– most firms require $. there are only a few that don’t and you have to have a great track record to get in. Usually the people that get in have 6 or 7 years trading under there belt and a history of making at least $200k a year. They are often given $10m in buying power. If you are a “regular’ trader like myself- meaning aiming for $300-$700 a day and trade 20,000-40,000 a day then you most likely will have to put up funds. Just like you would if you wanted to trade w/ a online broker…the obvious advantage the leverage and cheap commissions… The firms that offer “NO $ Down but make u pay for a course are a joke- its marketing gig- they never let you lose more then what you put down—Basic business model for those firms….If you pay 4k in training- then they give you a account–have you trade small lots and then never let you loser more then $2500. this way they make $1500 from the class and $ on the commission…Until you hit the -$2500 and then you ‘aren’t working out” …unless of course you have more $…then ‘your future looks bright here’

  719. 719 Stephen

    Can I write to you privately off this site? I need some help trading and was wondering if I could approach you. My email is

    To All,
    Re my post of January 26, I wish to advise that WTC has reorganized and functioning once again. I am using them, as before. Their web site is They have various tiered programs, each of which offers ECN rebates. I have no financial interest in the firm other than as a trader and recommend them.


  720. 720 Dmitry

    Guys, what about Swift, everything depends on the office owners I guess. The head office sets up a certain conditions for the local offices, i.e. insurance deposit and split calculated on the office result in the whole. Further any office owner is free to set up their own conditions for the traders they hire. For example, Russian office where I worked as a risk manager used to pay their traders from 15 to 35% from their (traders) NET and never applied any extra commissions. Swifttrade commissions are sort of 0.10/1000 no matter volume with cap at 0.38. Owners payout = 83%. Other than that the head office provides a decent pay for the managers that usually goes to the owners’ pocket as well since they register themselves as managers while the hired person gets quite smaller salary. At least it’s the way it used to be in Moscow.


  721. 721 Dmitry

    Lilo wrote: Anyone knows of a Prop Firm that could hire remote traders? i am a good trader but i live in mexico , thanks if anyone knows something that could help

    Lilo, the shop where I work now hires remote traders but I’m afraid you won’t like it since we are in Russia and there’s quite no formal protection of your funds. In other words everyone works on trust with us though you can sigh some papers…. We have a group account at WTS. Even if you are a good trader, you’ll have to put up about 2k and prove your skills trading small lots for a while. If you do prove it, the conditions will be up to your profitable trading.
    Commissions are from $2/100 down to 0.5/1000 depending on the volume and payout 70%.

    If it’s interesting for you email me to

  722. 722 Linus

    Hello everyone

    I’ve been researching the web about Swift, but I still couldn’t find a complete list of branches in Canada (by province). Could anyone please provide any information about this?

    Thank you !

  723. 723 sexytrader

    I was a profitable trader for 2 years on a wall st prop desk…and had $600k buying power (profitable 12 of 20 days avg). I left trading for a few years and now want to get back, but I am looking for a mentoring environment.

    I had to take care of some personal/family issues which set me back a great deal financially…so I dont have the capital right now.

    I lived all over Europe for 14 years and speak several languages fluently.

    Are there any places in London or Europe who pay entry level traders a low base until they prove themselves? I know someone mentioned Vandermoolen which obviously is no longer…Is there anything similar?

    any advice is welcomed as always…:)

  724. 724 Rhett

    Steve, thank you for the response. I do have a couple more questions. Could you email me at I would like to ask you some questions! Thanks.

  725. 725 Dmitry

    Linus, I was about to suggest you go to their website and check it out for their branch list, but recalled that they changed it. Previously there was the full list of their offices all over the world. As far as I know they have them in each province. I’ll try to recall some of them… Hm… London, Richmond, Edmonton Saskatchewan, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Montreal, Halifax, Regina, let alone the head office in Toronto. Of course I forgot some for sure but what I remember should be true.

  726. 726 Linus

    Hi Dmitry, thanks for your response.

    Actually I found it difficult to get this information in their website, since there is no information there. But I appreciated your help, and this is a first step.


  727. 727 Dmitry

    You are welcome, Linus!

    If I get some more info on your issue, I’ll let you know about it.

  728. 728 Mike

    Was looking into possibly trading at Soldier Capital. Anyone have any info on this firm?

  729. 729 punam

    I want to know any of the above company has the office in India, if yes pls let me know, thank u

  730. 730 Jesse

    Hey Guys! I’m desperately looking for a trading firm in the Maryland/Virginia area and any help that you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

  731. 731 Linus

    Hi everyone

    Would you know which companies in Canada are reliable (besides Swift, I think), and do you also know anything about Globus Trading? I have heard not so good things about them, but I would like to check with you guys first.

    Thanks again!

  732. 732 Marc

    Hey, Steve or Rhett, I have also been in contact with km capital management. Before I join, any extra info. would be great.

  733. 733 nysetrader

    We are in the process of setting up a prop desk in Tysons Corner VA. You can email me if you are interested and I will keep you posted on the progress.

  734. 734 Max

    Does anyone know of a prop firm in Bangkok or
    other parts of Thailand?

    I trade from home (Chiang Mai - north of Thailand),
    in the US markets, mainly equity options, but would be
    interested in having a look at any trading entities
    over here.


  735. 735 BOBBY

    Suprise Suprise It happened again and I warned people on this site and others to beware Of VCM/Velez Cpital/Team Trader…AHH TEAM TRADER what a great idea and what a wonder full commsion structure! No-Lock U and No U4 or Finger Printing!…Its a great deal except they ran off with your $$ !! You want to take short cuts and go with these forms w/ no track record/ No U4/ No Finger Printing/ You only sign 3 peices of paper….How wonderful….

    You want to be with a real firm as i said many times on many forums w/ a 10 year track history and get this …a Compliance Department…i know its a forgien word to may “day traders’ looking for the ‘best deal out there” I do feel bad for the newest victims don’t get me wrong but what can i do…

    as I mentioned I was a SOES Bandidt…so I have years under my belt …not a super start but i can make a decent living….I been the same firm for 6 years now…But I won’t say who for fear of being called a “shill”– no rarther then me being a “shill” I was trying to inform new traders about shady firms…and again i get called a shill…so I wont mwntion the firm but if you want security and honesty in your fiem hewre is the # 914-592-1240 and yes there is lock up and u4 and complince department so yes–its a real form that plays by the books…

  736. 736 Chris

    Hey guys. Great thread. Does anyone have any info on protrade securities or Fx direct liquidity. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

  737. 737 Ken

    Hey guys, does anybody know a few good reputable firms to trade futures/options in toronto? I have been a professional trader who just moved to Toronto.

  738. 738 Montay

    I just applied for a prop trading position with Title Trading. Does anyone know of this firm?

  739. 739 BeamerUSA

    Montay I think Title conducts sham interviews for market research purpose. Finally they will try to avoid getting down to business.

  740. 740 Jay

    Hey Ken,

    Try Infinium Capital. Very good firm. They are the number 1 High Frequency Trading firm in North America. Their business model is 50% automated trading (High Frequency), 50% human traders. They’re always open to fresh ideas/traders that can make money. They have an office in Toronto.

  741. 741 sexytrader

    I interviewed with FNYS and wasn’t accepted because I dont have a recent P&L. Since they are a reputable firm, I trust their recommendations…and they suggested I trade with Avatar or Access and build my P&L and then they would take me.

    I found Avatar but cannot find which Access she is referring to. Does anyone know which Access they mean?

    I found these 3 links:

    Any inside scoops on either of these 2 firms would be much appreciated!

    thanks!!! :)

  742. 742 Dipak

    Hey sexytrader,
    I would highly recomend Avatar Trading.
    They are very flexible and extremely good tech support.
    I have traded with them and am going back to them soon.

  743. 743 sexytrader

    thanks Deepak! I have a call with them on Monday….wish me luck!

  744. 744 john

    I’m a new trader and looking to trade remotely. I’m looking for low commissions and online mentoring/chat room. I’m leaning towards JC Trading but I need more info on them. I’m looking for a firm that allow shorting ETF’s, 30:1 leverage.
    Anyone have any recommendation I’m planing to trade less than 100k shares a month. I’m looking for commission less than .07 cents a share.
    Please direct me to a good prop firm

    Does this sound like a good deal, it’s from Dan Fischer from DTG:

    -High Intraday and Overnight Buying Power

    -0 Bi-Weekly Payout

    Remote Commission Rates:

    Overall Average Shares Traded/Day:

    *1,000 to 25,000: 0.007

    *25,000 to 50,000: 0.006

    *50,000 to 100,000: 0.005

    *100,000 to 150,000: 0.004

    *150,000 : 0.003

    /-Ecn cost/Full Rebates/No Markups

    *All Trader’s have unlimited access to our Trading Chat Room; hosted by an experienced and successful trader of 10 years.

  745. 745 Ken

    Hey Jay,

    thanks! If you know of any others please let me know.

  746. 746 BOBBY


    That seems like a failrly straight forward deal. i trade thru them and have never had any problems except that the demo only allows you to see symbols A-C…but I got over that…I really just wanted to get the basics down on the executio and the system does give you a good feel for what their live version looks like….. you should be able to work with him on commisions as he is a down to earth straight forward guy…at least in dealing w/ me …i cant speak for everybodys experince with him

  747. 747 BeamerUSA

    Yes John Bobby,
    I can vouch for Dimension.
    The demo looks weak but the actual trading platform is cool and quick in execution matters and gives the best price even if you typed diff amt.

  748. 748 sexytrader

    Has anyone ever traded with Atlas in NY? They just recently advertised on CL. Are they legit?

    You have to put $2,500-$5,000 down and take the Series 7. Then they give you a week of training and $250,000 worth of BP.

    They have a “market neutral” trading strategy as well as ETF and equity trading.

    Does this mean they do high freq trading and scalping?

  749. 749 john

    I’m new to the trading world. Are there any firms that will let me trade their capital for free? I have been searching for 7 months and can find no such place. I would be willing to have a lower profit split in the beginning, or completely forgo any payment. Does such a company exist or not?

  750. 750 john


    Did you open an account with Dan Fischer?
    Did you receive the same commission rate?

    I’m also looking at Avatar

  751. 751 robtrader1

    hello. I am looking for a proprietary option trading firm in southern california. can you reccomend one that allows me to trade a large amount of capital and doesn’t charge 8000 for training.

  752. 752 scott

    I just finished reading responses up until DEC 2007 and then a few more near the end here. Has it occurred to the audience to consider skipping the leverage, skipping the numerous fees/charges and just opening a discount brokerage account online? Do you understand what it means to buy and hold? Buy and hold isn’t cool, you can’t tell your friends that you traded a bunch of stocks yesterday and picked up a cool dime, and it shouldn’t be exciting. Even with buy and hold strategies you will be humbled; you will lose money. Unless you learn to admit and recognize your mistakes (ie I neglected to acknowledge, due to stubbornness and hope, lower lows and lower highs in price over a one year period as well as neglecting to conduct proper fundamental and cash flow analysis) you will have your ass kicked and then kicked again. Aspiring day traders this is your warning; give up the prop dream.

    be right and sit tight
    the trend is your friend
    know your opponent

    Also, pick up a copy of Reminiscences of a Stock Operator get some highlighters, and then read it continuously. This is your bible to help you reflect on your behavior, thought process, and admission to guilt (in recklessly speculating on things of which you have no understanding for). See things for what the ARE.

    I hope that I have discouraged you. However, it is possible to succeed.

  753. 753 Jerald Kusteau

    lol Scott thanks for coming to a board specifically targeted toward proprietary trading and giving your unsolicited opinion but the reality of trading is that most of the money is made intraday/short term and bulk auto trading systems move the markets, period. Buy and hold is what has wiped out a decade of market gains most recently. Guys in the S&P500 pit and Specialists on the NYSE make upwards of 100k a day, day in and day out (in case you didn’t know) The fact that you have given up this endeavor due to your own lack of talent, skill, and ambition is no reason to make us all have to read your post. Buy and hold isn’t cool, and you aren’t either.

    Peace out

  754. 754 Fernando

    Scott, agree on the Reminiscences of a Stock Operator. That is the best book on trading, that no trader should be with out.

    But have to disagree on your view of day trading.
    Some people have no problem holding a position for more then a year, while others, get nervous when they have a position for more then a couple of minutes..

  755. 755 Wayne


    Regarding the short term vs long term trading debate, my perspective is ‘Different Strokes for Different Folks’ and concentrate on which is more suitable to you and more importantly which you are better equipped to succeed at.

    If you dig further into Livermore quotes you will find that he didn’t necessarily promote buy and hold forever, he just advocated letting your profits run longer than most were willing too. In his quote ‘Be right and sit tight’ , the key words are “be right’. He didn’t advocate ‘Be wrong and sit tight’.

    Jesse Livermore
    “A loss never bothers me after I take it. I forget it overnight. But being wrong - not taking the loss - that is what does damage to the pocketbook and to the soul.”

    Short term trading can be tough over the course of years as well. There is the bid-ask spread you usually have to pay on every trade and if you are trading size, there is going to be slippage. This adds up, but the floor loves you.

    Live and Let Live

  756. 756 scott

    james, all the posts here are unsolicited. I don’t know what this means “Buy and hold is what has wiped out a decade of market gains most recently.” I can’t believe you just said this, think of how silly that statement was. I am sure some locals and market makers do very well. What is the ongoing cost to trade when you own a seat at the comex? WHAT ARE THE ONGOING COSTS TO TRADE IN A PROP SHOP? a prop shop taking a .007 cents a share? you’ve got to be joking. The mere idea of a ‘trading class’ is ridiculous. There are a million and one games to be found in the capital markets; find one unique to you. Aspiring traders try this, find one stock and learn as much as you can about it. Watch price volume and whatever else for at least a year before taking a position in it. Become familiar with EDGAR or SEDAR. Understand your resources. You cannot attempt to know TOO MUCH about a company’s prospects, only TOO LITTLE. With this message board receiving so many hits with people interested in trading from their own account it only makes sense to observe prop shop recruiters and other hustlers looking for that initial deposit. I’ll never give a cent to a prop shop. They had bucket shops back in the day where traders bet on a shoestring, now they have prop shops. Now instead of walking in off the street and laying a bet, you have to walk in off the street, sign a contract, and lay a bet. PROP SHOP TRADING is not the best approach to begin a career in FINANCE for 99.9% of the people out there.

    money is also lost on a intraday basis.

    the BIG MONEY is made on the big swing

  757. 757 BOBBY

    Not really sure I agree with that statment. I sit in a room full of 6 and 7 figure day traders that print $ here in NY. I agree about waiting a long time to commistt and studing a particualr stock or sector very closely. Short term trading is not finance to me. I see big profits intra day and in swing trading on a regualr basis …but it takes serious time and $ until you see the light at the end of the tunnel…But that light is there and if you can get there LIFE IS GOOD!!!

  758. 758 Fernando

    Scott, good stuff.

    However there are some stuff, you see them in a different light.

    You mention something about 70 cents for 100 shares. That is not that bad, if you don’t trade volume. It would cost more to the prop firm to pay for the seat you are at, when you trade only like 10,000 shares a month…..
    So the 70 cents is for them to collect something while you are at the desk trading low volume.

    Now when you trade 500,000 or a million shares a month, then definitely you will need better commission then that. Usually you can get like 35 cents per 100 share when doing those volumes or even lower.

    People here ask a lot for lower commission. But it is not even worth it, if you don’t trade big volume.

    Also I agree on sticking to one stock or sector when day trading. Day trading can be very intense, and it is more tactical when you just trade one stock over and over during intra day period.
    When you do swing trading, then having a sector might be good, if you follow the conditions, and trend of the sector.

    Last is true that a lot of people fail in the prop shops. The success ratio is that, in for every 10 people that come to learn, only 1 will stay.
    But that one that stays, makes so much money, then you or i can imagine…

  759. 759 Jacob

    It all comes through your perspective and phsycology, a trading style that works for someone might not for another person since both have developed different feelings towards money since they were born. Most intra day trading methods can’t be figured out overnight. It takes time, money and patience, which most people don’t have since they might be looking for income. I think most people are suitable to trade long term since its easier and less time consuming. Intra day, you must be on top of it and surely you will make a ton more than long term. Most won’t understand my statement because most people loose money. You must become a specialist at what you do. Otherwise you’ll be going a thousand different directions. You can get very creative with options and hedging but you must master the easy things first. Keep an open mind and take your time to chew and diggest other opinions. Track records are key, you can get money everywhere not just prop firms, if you have taken the time to develope a track record and integrity. Some people want an office with other people there for support and that’s fine if that’s what they want. Find your DNA with the markets, each of you have a unique skill. This game is definitely not for the lazy and the people that procastinate and don’t have self discipline. I have figured out my DNA and I must keep on improving. My outomated trading software is killing the markets, S&P,Bonds, and USD/JPY. Hundreds of thousands per day. hedgefunds are using it, pension funds are using it, institutions are using it, individuals are using it. But you know why most people can’t use it. Because it requires a minimum of 500k to join. Chew on this!! So that method is out of most people’s hands. But how about you do long term or short term. Stocks are ok until you get too big, some don’t have enough liquidity, then you must graduate to futures and forex. Where the big boys are intra day trading. Not warren buffets, or templetons although I admire their perspective and performance. If you can master directions on /CL all you need is about 7k on a broker account(preferably not retail broker) then focus on consistently making 30cents a day and that turns into $300 dollars a day. Then as you get the hang of it you move to 2contracts then 3 then 4 and up to less than 100 contracts you shouldnt have a problem getting filled, depending on your arrengements with the broker. That formula within itself can make you 10k a day. if you need more than that, keep your spending habits under control. Other methods have already been figured out when you overachieve those numbers.Do have money management in place. I don’t care if you use technicals or fundamentals, whatever gets you good results become an specialist. I’m runnig short on time here, I hope this helps a little. I’m still learning, noone know everything, and noone is the holly grail. Most lazy people look for that one person whos going to change their destiny. I leave you with 3 nice quotes.
    “Be careful the environment you choose for it will shape you, Be careful the friends you choose for you will become like them” / “Good and evil both increase at compound interest. That’s why the little decisions you and I make everyday are of such infinite importance”. / “There are only three kinds of people- those who are immovable, those who are movable, and those who move them!) Leaders move others.

    God bless!!

  760. 760 Tommy

    Plain and simple it’s education and then probability. Educate yourself then from the education you can put probability on your side. Some will win and some will lose bur the RECOGNITION of when you have probability on your side will - with proper leverage - and money management make you money. Thats it! Whoever says its a losers game blah, blah, just doen’t get it and thats ok. My friend can yake 1.00 from the market when i can only take .15. It’s all in the individual. But those who FAIL do so for only one reason THEY LET THERE LOSERS GET TOO BIG. LOL trading is easy if you take a loss without fail. I take a .5 loss and a .15 win. Think about that? Ha easy just have disciple and dont trade to have fun, trading is really not that exciting. Some days im bored as hell falling asleep in my chair. The exciting part is recognizing that I was able to recogbize where the order flow was and able to execute my plan accordingly if the market decides to do something different me getting out at .5 is exciting. Do you guys get it? If you dont, you wont.

  761. 761 BeamerUSA

    Scott……the race is for the swift and fight is for the able.
    There are traders who make 3 grand before the market opens in the premarket hours and some do it during the course of the day.
    If you don’t think you can do it then stay out of it.
    And I bet you don’t have the recourses to buy and hold and see the profit in a decade or you won’t be here on this site fishing info on how to day trade.
    So do your buy and hold strategy and don’t get involved with madmen on this site (including myself) we don’t need buy and hold tips.
    Try to get in touch with Buffet. (Wait, he has done it already so he also doesn’t need ur advice either)

  762. 762 Rano

    I am a new currency trader and thinking of joining Maverick Trading. I am wondering if it is worth the time? They said that their training is three months long- why is it that long? and how hard are the tests?

    Thank you!

  763. 763 Winston

    Tomorrow, I start at Altrion Trading, but if they ask for an up front fee for training, I will have to leave. I am not in a position to pay for that right now and didn’t realize there would be an upfront training fee. I guess I will have to save some money and then go back to a prop firm afterwards.

    By the way, does anyone know of legit firms that will train and sponsor new candidates for their series 7? I looked up Quest Capital and AIT, but would rather hear from other traders who can tell me their thoughts.

  764. 764 charlie

    Great info by most posters. Thanks for all. I will be doing some research into all of these firms and will provide some insight soon.

  765. 765 Adam

    Hello! I have been thinking about joining a prop firm. However, have never really felt comfortable with a company who asks for money up front. I understand the reason behind it, maybe Im just scared. So, I feel that I would be more comfortable if I could do at an office or something. My question is… Does anyone know any prop firms in the Indianapolis area? If so, that’d be great if you could drop a couple of names for me! Have seriously thought about joining KM Capital Management, and even went as far as getting the account set up, but never gave them the initial, minimum 3k deposit! Thanks for all you guys do!

  766. 766 Allen

    Hey John. You said you are a remote trader? I can definetely find you a better deal than what you put out there from DTG. Email me at and we can discuss more in depth.

  767. 767 Mr Bean

    i there anyway you can trade without doing it through a company? The reason i ask is because i’m frequently gross up but after commission, i’m down. This month, i’m gross up $6000 but my commission is $6400. So i’m net down -$400 . Last year i grossed $72,000 but commission added up to $80,000. The bottom line is, I trade alot of shares. I feel you should be rewarded for taking the risk and pulling money out of the market. I understand you’d need
    - buying power
    - monthly fee for the trading software
    - ECN fees
    - SEC commissions
    but is it possible?

  768. 768 Kanmoikakan

    Is there any other prop trading firm in toronto?
    I have no capital, would like to work for one that doesn’t require deposit or anything.

    I actually worked for swift trade for 3 months, i really hate their softwares and environment. While the branch manager was a trader himself, he does not spent a lot time mentoring. Most of the time i spent was looking forums for ideas instead of trading aggressively.

    I do heard most traders there does make some money back, at least 800 per month since TSX is a lot easier then the other market in term of movement. I quit because i made anything.

    Do other prop firm really ask you for money if you take a lost overall in the end? I know Swift trade didn’t at least for the duration i was in. Since i am pretty bored right now (unemployed and can’t find works, i might as well go waste some time with trading)

  769. 769 charlie

    Mr. Bean,
    It sounds like you are paying higher commish than you should be? what do you pay per share? maybe you should explore other platforms such as thinkorswim? tradestation? or similar

  770. 770 Mr Bean

    To be honest, i have a better rate than most guys at my firm. 200,000 shares will cost me $1,000 , So more or less 50c per 100 shares. I guess what it comes down to is being selective and taking better setups and to stop churning. I grossed $1,300 the other day trading 230,000 shares netting less than $200. That kinda sucks.

  771. 771 Allen

    Mr Bean, you are paying a fortune in fees. Why don’t you shoot me an email-, and I will help you find a place where you will be able to start making some good money net.

  772. 772 James

    Does anyone know of a Chicago Prop Trading firm that has recently opened an office in London? I saw an agency advertisement for a job stating some Chicago based firm was looking for traders for their new London office.


  773. 773 Dmitry

    Hello, guys and girls. I would like to ask your advice. I’m Russian’ 38 and I’m an experienced prop firm office manager. I used to work at Moscow Swifttrade office for 2 years and now I work at a private stock-trading shop that in a way can be called a prop firm too. Well, I’m looking to move to USA (preferably to LA area) and want to ask your opinion on which way it would be more effectively to get a similar position at one or another similar company? I will appreciate if someone shares with me their opinion.
    My email:

  774. 774 Allen

    Hey sorry about that. I did not mean to advertise or solicit. I was just trying to help people out that are getting ripped off but nevertheless I will keep my comments to myself. My bad.

  775. 775 Sw

    Guys can you explain me why some companies name coloured with red or black?
    looking forward your answer, thanks:

  776. 776 jlanke

    Wanted some advice/reviews:

    Got an offer with a prop trading firm, no deposit, trade firm’s capital only, training for four months while beginning to trade in very small amounts after completing paper trading/initial training. Classes for junior traders continue once a week for the first year.

    Branch I will be in is run by the main partner/founder, currently only 7 traders are in the office (opposed to their NY branch which has over 50). Trading fees are broken up into two parts. 1- ticket charge per stock = $4 per day (regardless of share size)
    2- cost per share traded = 1.25cents per share. They trade on Goldman Sachs Redi Plus, Glodman does their clearing. They also have access to whisper/insight (i believe that’s what it’s called/was told).

    Initially i feel like this is a good place to start. I am a recent graduate and really want to be able to learn and develop as a trader at a good firm with a good environment. The feel I got from visiting the small branch versus the large one in the city was really good. But the fees and rates are what I don’t really know about. Are they are considered good or not? any help or intput would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

  777. 777 WH


    If 1.25cents per share is correct (no mistake typing) then I can tell you right now, it’s a HORRIBLE RATE!!! You will never make any money with a rate of 1.25 cents. I think it’s almost criminal that they are trying to get away charging that rate. Especially to a kid fresh out of school just trying to learn the game. You should be looking for rate no higher than $0.005, and even that is a high rate in my opinion. I’ve been trading professionally for over 10 years in Toronto, and I’m getting a rate of $0.0002.

  778. 778 DS


    I am also in Toronto. Which firm do you trade for in Toronto? and what kind of trading are you involved in?

  779. 779 jlanke

    WH or anyone else:

    thanks for the quick reply, the 1.25 cents was my immediate concern and I had the same thoughts as you, wondering if it was a typo. I have emailed my contact at the firm to clarify this rate.

    Other then these fees I listed before, all of the subscriber fees are paid for by the firm. Besides the ticket and commission charges the only other fees are those which the exchanges charge when removing liquidity and if I wish to pay to borrow hard to borrow stocks which I want to short (which is obviously optioinal).

    If in fact the 1.25 cost per share traded is a typo and is for example .25cents, what would your opinion on this firm be?


  780. 780 dhride

    This is a great blog, thanks to Babak for putting this list together.
    There is so much information here that I do not know where to start my search and I thought some of you might be able to help me out narrowing my search.

    I trade cash equities and [a little bit of] options in an intraday basis.
    I am algorithmic trader with Medium and high frequency systems, I live in NYC and trade U.S. Markets.
    I am looking to expand my trading operation to other highly liquid markets in Europe and Asia. My main concern is to get the “cheapest” clearing cost as I can possible get.
    At my current firm I pay 20cents per 1K shares for clearing, I am fully backed, and I have a BP of 3MM intraday and 500K overnight and a 80% split.

    I would like find a firm(s) that have fast execution and can back me up with enough BP[maybe not at the beginning but need to know that they are not afraid of risk and will let me grow if results are good]

    I can put a deposit to start, but eventually I will need to have access to firm’s capital.
    I can be asset to the right firm(s) since my daily average trading volume is 4MM shares and that’s why I need extremely cheap execution. Also, I need for access to an API or FIX connectivity since all my trading is program trading, this is a must.

    If no firm comes to mind maybe those that have traded in Europe and Asia can tell me what can I expect in terms of clearing cost, per share, per order, etc.

    I am aware of the tax that some countries(UK) have over transactions.

    Thanks for any help or advice,

  781. 781 Sam

    Does anyone know of a proprietary trading firm in Ottawa, Canada.
    I have experience in swing trading and want to begin day trading. Please feel free to email me

  782. 782 Alex

    dhride, what strategy are you using in your trading?

  783. 783 Eugene Steele

    I am organizing 100 brokerages 50 in the US you can own your own brokerage for futures, options, currencies no stocks. We give you a web page all associations to clear your trades and membership in the association. You must join NFA if you are in the US. Series 3 required for US companies. We will form the company for you. Total cost for us is $500 and we don’t make a profit on that. Details contact me. Eugene Steele business development. Pay yourself yoour commissions.

  784. 784 jmitrache


    I am an algorithmic trader in Toronto, running arbitrage strategies and more recently started looking into order book reading algos.

    The fees of 20cents per 1K shares you pay are great, can you tell us what is your brokerage / prop shop?

    I am thinking to open an account with Genesis Securities or Lime Brokerage, do you have any experience with them?

    Thanks for any help or advice

  785. 785 dhride


    If I had to give my strategies a name I would say Momentum and scalping, even though that’s not very accurate.


    My friend has been trading with Lime for some time and he is happy with them. Both Lime and Genesis have their own platform and from what I heard they are very fast and reliable with many different options and tools.

    When looking for a firm in the U.S. I suggest going for those that are Broker Dealers(BD) registered firms. BDs will be able to provide you with the best clearing cost. I would say that you can expect to pay anywhere from 10cents to 30cents per 1k.
    The owners of BD firms tend to be more risk adverse. Since great part of their earnings comes from clearing trades for hedge funds/prop firms and not only from trading profits they need not to risk as much to reach their goals.

    So generally the most difficult task[at least in my experience] is to find a firm that understand your style of trading and is comfortable with your risk appetite. Also, ECN’s access/cost can vary greatly. Generally the types/# of routes and cost tells you the style of trading of the firm. Firms with many floor routes and dark pools at discounted prices are more likely to favor scalping, etc.

    I can give you the contact information of managers at few firms here int the U.S that will clear your trades for about 20cents(give or take 10cents) per 1k shares.
    If you have a good trading record they migth be willing to fully back you up.
    Just post your email/cellphone number(which ever you feel more comfortable posting here) and I will send you the info.

    How much do you pay for clearing in Toronto? I would be interested in trading the Canandian market. hope we can help each other.

  786. 786 jmitrache


    Thanks for the information.
    My email is, I will reply to you with more info about Canadian market.

  787. 787 Jose Luis

    does anyone know some propietary trading in Madrid???? i will like to work in a propietary trading in my country…. thanks!!!!

  788. 788 Sheila

    Has anyone heard about Coastal Trade Securities? Is this a reputable firm?

  789. 789 bobby

    My favorite statement ” I don’t feel comfortable giving $ to prop firms that ask for it up front” haha R u kidding me….If you dont have a great track record -why would anyone let you trade their $? I know there are those–NO $ down deals- But you have to pay for a $3k course…But they are never going to let you loose more then a 1/2 or 3rd of your tuition fee….. For experienced traders who can show their P/L runs for the last 3-5 years thier are certainly no $ down deals-yes…..But its funny to think that a new trader or a trader who only has had a on line brokerage account would be fronted a account w/ no $ down from a real prop firm–hello—Does Etrade or Ameritrade ask you to put down $? of course they do…

  790. 790 robtrader1

    dhride, i am new to trading but plan on being able to have funds to invest in 6 monhs. can you email me some of the firms’ managers contact info that you would reccomend in the us. i am based in southern california

  791. 791 James

    Does anyone know of a Chicago Prop Trading firm that has recently opened an office in London? I saw an agency advertisement for a job stating some Chicago based firm was looking for short term discretionary traders for their new London office.

    Appreciate any help on this.

    Many thanks

  792. 792 jordan


  793. 793 Alex

    drhide, thanks for sharing.. what’s your avg hold time of a trade?

    Guys, has anyone tried ??

  794. 794 john

    What question should I ask the prop firm before hand before opening account ( I fear that they might scam my deposit): how do I find out if their legitimate? Besides asking whether their a broker-dealer.


  795. 795 ChicagoTrader

    Long-time reader. First time poster.

    Has anyone heard of Maverick Trading in Chicago. Just minutes ago I finished their nearly 2 hour long webinar. Nearly half of this time was devoted to how important it is to complete their training course for $6,000. On top of that, they want $5,000 capital contribution which will provide $25,000 trading capital and 70/30 percent profit split.

    Commissions are $0.004 per share and $0.25 to $0.40 per contract. Technology fee, subscription fee, blah blah blah is $199 per month.

    So, I started thinking. I pay $6,000 for training and $5,000 capital contribution. That’s $11,000 that I need to fork over. I can’t get that $5,000 until I have produced equivalent amount of profits. So, in a way this is a sunk cost just like the training cost. With only $25,000 initial starting trading capital, I will already be down 11K/25K or 44% right off the bat no matter how you want to twist it. And thats before including monthly fixed charges of $199 which amounts to $17% APR based on net starting capital position.

    Hell I can withdraw money from my credit card which has APR of 9.9% to trade the market and it would be a better deal than joining Maverick Trading.

    And then there are still other restrictions. There is a weekly cap of $500 maximum loss that they will allow in the portfolio with starting capital of $25,000. They call this risk management. Thats 2%! It leaves absolutely no room for margin of error and this rule will force a trader to engage in high frequency trading while the firm collects outrageous commission.

    Bottom line if you’re already an independent trader with your own capital, really what advantage do you get joining these prop firms? In essense, leverage is really a very small piece considering all upfront costs that you have to put up with. How does technology and execution provide an edge? Is it better than Think or Swim desktop version? Watching flashes of prints in milli second vs. one second is going to make you a lot more money? And if you believe joining like-mind traders give you an upper edge, I suggest downloading Stocktwits on your computer. Lastly, if you’re truly a big shot who can easily produce six or seven figure returns, do you really want to give away 30% profits to someone who provided you net net $14,000 initial capital (after subtracting your upfront costs) and a desk with a bunch of screens?

    I asked the guy at Maverick a simple question during the webinar: If your training is rigorous and you believe your trading methodology is so strong, why in the world do you need outsiders to trade the firm capital? Five minutes later when I didn’t get the answer, I said that’s because you’re not in trading business to begin with. I can guarantee that your firm’s P&L will show major source of income from training and commissions. Still no answer.

    Good luck everyone. That was my rant for tonight.


    P.S. I have a phone interview scheduled tomorrow with another prop firm called Avatar Securities. Anyone know about them? Wonder what they have to say.

  796. 796 Amanda

    Excellent post Chicago Trader.

  797. 797 ChicagoTrader

    Regarding my post above, I just want to emphasize that it is not intended to trash every prop firm out there. There are a few legit and respectable firms with long history of truly capitalizing and exploiting the core competencies of most distinguished traders that bring sort of natural ability to spot opportunities.

    Case in sight is First New York Securities. The recruiting process there is more competitive than having a shot at being admitted to Harvard Law School. They typically admit no more than 20-25 people per year in their intensive 18-24 month long training program. Trainees get paid a handsome salary and the firm pays full cost for their training. Trainees get coached on trading of every possible asset class in every market. Even after graduation, trainees continue to get paid salaries for 12 months while they take trader’s role in their niche market. After 12 months, traders compensation completely switches to pure performance based.

    The firm never requires traders to make upfront capital contribution. I am not sure what is profit split percentages, but there is no pressure to day trade and 98% traders hold positions overnight. Making money on commissions is not company’s primary goal and many long-timers go on to become principals in the firm.

    The most difficult part of selecting the right prop firm is identifying the “real” profit motive as seen by its top management. Do they look at traders as customers, no different than Wal-Mart shoppers, or as company’s assets.

    My two cents: I have to seriously question the motive if I am asked by a prop trading firm to pay training fees and bring my own capital contribution to the table. But this is just me. I am sure many disagree.

  798. 798 Alex

    Chicago Trader, good points!
    Guys, I still keep getting inspired by only 2 traders: Jesse Livermore and Richard Denis. First was trading his money only , so did the second. I believe no matter 40 or 100 years ago it all comes to this: start small but with your own money after you know you got some edge in the market you’re trading.

    Guys like Paul Jones and Monroe Trout are great traders but these 2 guys were trained and were provided with capital and floor spots in the pits. Paul had a uncle who was a giant cotton trader who taught him everything and Monroe was taught by Victor Niederhoffer. Victor Niederhoffer also gave Monroe his funds to trade. Victor Niederhoffer was trained by George Soros. George Soros figure it all out himself (or maybe not, but that’s mysticism how Soros gets his trading signals).

    In a nutshell, if you’re tired of looking for sponsor, start small and see where it’s leading you

  799. 799 fox5

    Great list, thanks!
    I am doing a PhD in Finance on proprietary trading and was wondering whether there are any datasets on prop trades available out there. Thanks!

  800. 800 bobby

    Thats right! A real frim is not going to ask you to pay for training and bring capital . Real firms genarally don’t offer training courses that you pay for. They may or may not have in house training where a large trader gives lessons a few times a month or week if ur lucky on various subjects either for free or the partners give him some type of incentive.

    When u pay for training and don’t put up $ the firm will never let u loose more $ then you paid for the training. otherwise its not worth it. If you have been trading for a while with them and they have been making commsions on you then you have a larger loss limit becaseu they (the firm) is still up on you ( thier investment).

    Real firms have real traders and therfere dont need to make $ off selling pipe dreams and classes to newbies…they have real traders doing real volume making real commsions for the firm and may have some type of profit sharing split that they get a piece of as well.

    If you trade remote they may have a chat room for you. The best remote firm in my opinion is because they specialize in remote trading…not selling classes…or not catering to 100 floor traders…they specialize in providing serice for only remote traders

  801. 801 ted


    Could do you trade with if so could you tell me your experience with them.
    I’m looking for a good prop firm to trade remotely.

  802. 802 Justin

    Anyone know of any prop firms located in the Pacific North West?

  803. 803 Kanmoikakan

    I saw a lot post about “real” traders for legit firms.

    How to become one? Currently i still don’t have the fund to start it small. I am looking for something in the field myself to learn the rope.

    Since prop firm does exist, i do expect there are real traders for real trading firms as well. But i never seem to be able to catch these position open from job hunt.

    I saw some courses from CSI as well. I was wondering about it as well.

    Anyone can give me some info on it? thanks my email is

  804. 804 PZhang


    I am a day trader from Canada too. I have allocated to New York for a few months.

    The fees of 20cents per 1K shares-firm is exactly what I’m looking for. I joined an open house at star alliance today but it seems their commission rate is kind of high. I also need 1.5m BP to trade SPY.

    the most difficult part is to find the right firm. My email is Can you recommend a few BD trading firms for me too.

    Thanks very much and regards


  805. 805 Justin

    Thanks for the response Make$

  806. 806 PZhang


    Sorry. Misspelled.


    Thanks again

  807. 807 Kurtosis

    Has this won the award for Longest Running Blog Post Discussion Thread in the History of the Internet yet?

  808. 808 bobby


    No I don’t trade with . The only reason is becaseu i am fully liccensed and you don’t need to be licensed to trade with them and I don’t want my licenses to expire. But 2 of my good friends who are actually much better traders then me trade with and they have been very happy. You get great rates/0 payout every two weeks and no licenses required which was good for my friends becaseu they let thiers expire. Plus from what I know thru my buddies , only specializes in remote traders…believe me that counts for somthing. i ahve worked on large trading floors in NYC w/ 50-100 traders and believe me the “in house/ on-the -floor traders” always get better attention and support then remote traders do…. so sure if you are in NYC or chicago or another big city w/ a physical trading floor thats great….but if you are in bumblefuk USA (no offense to anyone- I am from the south originally) then do you really want to be treated like 2nd class citezens…and be taken care of after all the ‘in-house-floor traders”– no of course not….thats why if I was going to trade remote would probably be my 1st choice…or maybe a large frim that has a few managers that cater specifically to remote traders like Dimension Trading or somthing like that

  809. 809 Justin


    Which other firms besides the 2 your mentioned cater to remote traders?

  810. 810 Yechiel Aaron

    i have been an equities day trader for over 17 years. For the last few years i have been working on an automated system that only trades the first 80 minutes of the trading day. I am looking for potential investors into the system and i am open to all suggestions. Thank you. Yechiel (Michael) Aaron bhaaron@hotmail.coms

  811. 811 dhride


    Avg. hold for high frequency strategies: 50 secs
    Avg. hold for medium Frequency strategies: 3.5 hrs

  812. 812 Alex

    dhride, that’s impressive :) you said you use momentum, what are your indicators based upon? Do you use some general known indicators or proprietary stuff to enter/exit trades?

  813. 813 dhride


    I use only proprietary methods to generate my signals.

  814. 814 Alex

    dhride, that’s the way to go!

  815. 815 Van Trader


    Does anyone know of any prop firms in metro vancouver area other than swift trade.
    I traded a few years back and I want to get back into it.

  816. 816 Dmitry

    Hello, people. Our company started to offer remote access to the intra-day NYSE, NASDAQ trading. No capital required. All we need is just your ability to make profit.
    If someone wants to trade with us they are to prove their skills with a trade list.

    Platform is Sterling (200-265 USD/month)

    We can offer any commissions, even down to $0/1000 shares depending on your profitability and trading style.

    Payouts are also variable.

    Overall you’ll be pleased with our conditions. I just remind you that we’re looking for REAL traders, not students with no experience.

    Here is our brief promo video:

    Send your resume with trade lists and statement to the address:



  817. 817 Blackgamma

    I need trading capital! Serious cases only.

    Hello, I’m wondering if anyone could please direct me towards a legit trading firm(s) that are looking for Forex remote traders that don’t require an initial deposit.

    Sooner the better as I find myself without a job and it would be a shame to let the skills i’ve been developing over the last 2.5 years.

    Email me:

    And if possible, I would like to remain as anonymous as possible,


  818. 818 Michael

    Anyone knows a prop trading company that employ online traders worldwide?, I am not from Chicago nor from New York but I would like to trade for any company from home. I can trade Forex or stocks. I see that seems to employ online traders but they require 5k trader capital. Please let me know ASAP.

  819. 819 Matt G

    I work for a firm on the floor of the NYSE that would like to get involved in high frequency trading,if your company needs access to the floor to trade please let me know.

  820. 820 Dmitry

    Hello, people. Our company started to offer remote access to the intra-day NYSE, NASDAQ trading. No capital required. All we need is just your ability to make profit.
    If someone wants to trade with us they are to prove their skills with a trade list.

    Platform is Sterling (200-265 USD/month)

    We can offer any commissions, even down to $0/1000 shares depending on your profitability and trading style.

    Payouts are also variable.

    Overall you’ll be pleased with our conditions. I just remind you that we’re looking for REAL traders, not students with no experience.

    Here is our brief promo video:

    Send your resume with trade lists and statement to the address:



  821. 821 Ken

    Any remote prop firms that cater to Canadians, where a trader can start with 0 capital?

  822. 822 Jean

    Hello Max,
    I know a prop firm in Bangkok, if you like you can contact me.

  823. 823 Dmitry

    Hello, Michael.

    Check ou this offer:

    and email to



  824. 824 Dima

    Hello, Michael.

    Checkout this offer:

    and post to



  825. 825 CanadaJay

    To the people that are looking for prop firms with zero deposits, can you provide a profitable track record going back at least 6 months preferably 1 year? Also, why is deposit an issue?

  826. 826 Ken

    To CanadaJay,

    Can you supply us with your coordinates so we can contact you direct to further discuss?


  827. 827 Andy

    I followed this interesting thread since some time and have found many wise comments. Now I have my own question: How to enter trading firms on software development level?

    Beeing a) software engineer as profession and b) interested in trading since long time over the last 5 years I built up a nice trading software. The first intention was only to automate stupid thigs in trading that have to be done manually again and again but over the years it grew to a system that helps me to detect market inefficiencies, formulate them into strategies and execute them automatically. Technically stable since longer time it became constantly profitable in the last month after I invented “learning capabilities” like neural nets, regression trees etc. Now I’m at the point my system does trade much better than I do manually.

    Practically I don’t live from it as I’m very risk averse and still need more positive month before I feel good to put more money on it. Instead I do other programming jobs for living which don’t interest me and have nothing to do with trading.
    My goal still would be to develop software for a proprietary trading firm or work together with other individuals who are “technology driven traders” like me. However here in Europe all my try to enter such companies always fail because of one simple rule: They look at my CV and say “you have never worked in banking come back when you have banking experience”. However I feel over the years I DO have experience as well in cutting edge trading algorithms as in trading. If it continues like this I will never get my “entry job”.

    Maybe the approach is less conservative in U.S./Canada? I would be ready to move (perhaps more Canada because of work permit reasons). Can anybody of you give me some hints how I to grow into this direction? How to formulate a CV to get recognised? For some jobs between software development and trading (not as a pure trader as my tendency always heads to software and automation).

    Thank you, Andy

  828. 828 JTL

    I am looking for a reliable firm who would like to help me to improve my trading experience. I have a small future and options account (up to date around 30,000$) that I am trading from June 2009 with a 33% annualized return. I am sending out my results to prospective investors (mainly italian) who would like to invest in commodities trhough me. I am thinking to move to Chicago and I am interested in internship or free training program offered by successful prop trading firms in Chicago. But I am also open to mentorship programs and/or collaboration proposals. I will be glad to share my future clients’ commissions and fees with the firm who will help me to improve my results in order to attract qualified Italian investors. I have the US permanent resident card and obviously italian citizenship which allows me to work everywhere in the EU. I have the series 3 license and a strong knowledge of options and futures mechanisms. I am also familiar with programming, as I used Matlab for my PhD thesis but I am not a fan of fully automated trading.

    Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide me

  829. 829 Jacob


    Can I have your e-mail address? please reply to I might be able to offer an opportunity for you in the US.

  830. 830 john

    @chicago trader

    Do you have so contact info?

  831. 831 Jesse

    Hey Guys,

    I was just let go from a prop firm in NYC. Not because I blew up but b/c the firm as a whole took a big hit during the “flash crash” and they got rid of the new guys first. I’ve been at the firm for 5 months and interned at a hedge fund for a year before that. During my 5 months, I was down $7,000 but was beginning to turn it around.

    Does anybody know any firms in the NYC or Washington DC area that are looking for prop traders. Thanks

  832. 832 Brian

    Long time reader, first time poster:

    Any one has experience with Coastal Trade Securities, LLC ? Do they offer GOOD training? I heard 5k$ deposit is required, but how good is the firm?

  833. 833 Al Syd

    14 June 2010
    I have seen your list of proprietory trading firms. It is dated April 2007. Is it possible to have a more recent list, please ! I would be more interested in firms offering their trading floor services for Eurostoz, and fixedincome instruments like Bund & Bobl especially in Toronto, Ontario Canada.
    You may reply to me at:
    Thanks a lot.

  834. 834 Babak

    Al, the list is updated regularly. For trading Euro instruments like bund, bobl, etc. I would suggest prop firms based in London or European based firms. Look at the bottom of the list, that’s where they are grouped together.

  835. 835 Yossi Senderowicz

    Bear Capital is now Bear Trading
    Their website is
    Please update

  836. 836 Blackhawks2010

    Hi Everyone -

    Looking for advice on how to get started as a day trader in Chicago. I am currently on a career path I don’t want to be on and am looking for a new start. The ideal situation for me would be to join a trading firm that offers a salary (plus a bonus would be nice) that trains new hires. I’m not looking to trade my own funds. Do groups like this exist? I have a friend at Chicago Trading Company, and he was brought in under these parameters upon graduation. I would appreciate any firm names that fit. I understand it’s competitive, but I believe I have the capability to learn and the drive to be successful.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

  837. 837 Al Syd

    Thanks for the reply, Babak.
    I will look into the details as yo say. However, I hope they have some facilities in Toronto as well.
    Cheers !

  838. 838 HedgeGuy

    I have been reading this post for a while. I am a very experienced trader and would like to start a trading co-op in the NY area for those who have some exoerience. My biggest problem in trading now, after 35-40 years of Wall Street trading, is the boredom of trading by myself. Any ideas?

  839. 839 Alexander

    HedgeGuy, what is your trading approach: fundamental, technical or mixed? Do you want to team up with a few other traders and create a hedge fund?

  840. 840 MAT

    Hi ,
    I was looking to open an account with dimension trading group LLC. and star alliance capital partners
    Does anyone know anything about them, can I trust them.
    I live in Canada.


  841. 841 Dipak

    Mat…yes you can trust Dimension Trading. They are legitimate and trustworthy. Acct setup and all go smooth and likely Dan Fisher will be the pointman when you start your proceedings. Happy Trading Mat.

  842. 842 HedgeGuy


    Day trading is technical in nature. You can read my ’story’ at
    As to your idea of fund. I think that if enough guys/gals get together, they can get great deal from Spear (Goldman Sachs), one of the few that I know well.

  843. 843 HedgeGuy

    Sorry, my post to Matt should have been to Alexander.

  844. 844 Max

    Great log, thanks. My goal is to find a solid prop firm with low capital req (less than $5k) and remote access. After reading the log, it sounds like 1.) 2.) Guardian LLC are recommended. Any other firms to explore? thanks. take care.

  845. 845 Al Syd

    I would reeat my request of 14th June 2010 once again.
    Can someone assist me in finding some proprietary trading floors in Toronto, Canada to trade - preferably Eurostox, Bunds, Bobl, and the like.
    Thanks in advance for your help !

  846. 846 JWH


    Try Infinium Capital (Front St, Toronto). I don’t know if they’ll be interested in trading the instruments that you mentioned, but they are always open to new trade ideas. You do need to have experience and a track record to trade with them, but they are a very entreprenurial shop.

  847. 847 Max

    Before I join a prop trading firm, would like guidance on understanding the commissions payout. The firm is offering 10:1 leverage and 50/50 commissions split. I would like to better understand how this is realized in terms of cash payout. Simply, how do I get paid?
    As an example, I contribute $3,000 to have $30,000 buying power. I use $10,000 for a futures trade /ES and it returns a profit of $5000. What is my new buying power; was my net commission payout $2500 or 10:1 leverage $250; when can I receive the cash?
    Thanks for the guidance…..appreciate it.

  848. 848 Dipak

    Guys…is there any daytrading firm which lets you trade S&P emini Futures on leverage and if yes what are the terms? I find trading eminis a better deal than trading stocks.

  849. 849 HedgeGuy


    Why would you want to increase the leverage that you get from a good clearing firm. I think most would let you daytrade with $500 per contract. Probably need $1000 per contract to be on the safe side. I think that a good trader could take that $1000 and generate $100-$200 per day with a solid risk managed system. Thats what I do. Then after a few weeks, go to 2 contracts, Get Ninja trading platform and use a 2 contract strategy. Then go on etc.

  850. 850 Victor

    I’m in the Cleveland, Ohio area. Interested in starting a prop-firm satellite office in my area. I would like to hear from any traders from my area.

    As for my experience: Over 4 years of trading futures,and equities and equity options.
    Originally from Chicago where I marketed the Collins Futures Fund I & II which was co-managed by the big-turtle himself, Richard J. Dennis back in the mid-80s.

    Was Senior Registered Options Principal on an institutional trading desk for a major brokerage firm in Cleveland.

    Will be writing a technical trading newsletter for a NY firm which begin trading Binary Options next month.

    We also have developed a proprietary trading system (indexes and equities) for swing traders (1 to 3 days) and day traders.

    You can reach me at

  851. 851 John

    Hi guys,
    I follow up the thread from many months. I decided I will work with one company, just need some opinions from you as I do not know they street reputation. It is SFG Trading. Anyone works with them or hear anything about them? Please give ma a quick reply here.

  852. 852 Al Syd

    Thanks JWH for your reply to m query about prop. firms in Toronto.

  853. 853 robtrader1

    hello. I am looking for a trading firm in the orange county or san diego area of california that offers training. thank you. email


    We are a group of Day Traders, working for a prop firm, situated in Barcelona, we are working in an office of 75 m2 in the centrer of the city with Air conditioning, Optical fiber Internet conection, programs of suport for trading like Trade Ideas . futures ….
    We are thinking in rent a Trading Desk for PROFESIONALS TRADERS who wants to state in Barcelona for a long time, holidays or a week.
    If you are interest please sent a email to


  855. 855 Albert

    Hi Max,

    Just have a look at Pulsar Capital (

    They seem to offer top conditions and allow you to manage their own money.
    I will start trading with them this week.

  856. 856 Harsh

    Kindly let me know if there is any firm/hedge fund which provide Robot trading opportunity for Fx spot traders. I use an extraordinary system with great results. Thanks.

  857. 857 Matthew

    This is a great thread and I see it has much insight in a variety of ways with respect to trading. I am located in Boston and have been looking to work with a firm (investment bank, or firm), or trading outfit as a trader, but have not had much luck. Most of these firms (fidelity, merrill, etc) seem to hire from within and on top of that it is as if you are trying to infiltrate some sort of private club of the elite. Since getting a job with one of these firms does not seem to be a reality, a proprietary firm seems to be the next best option. I trade options, stocks, but most of all I have had success trading s&p e mini futures. I live in Boston, but am not opposed to going to NYC in search of a great opportunity that will allow me implement my trading strategy and give me a decent amount of leverage and payout. Can anybody refer me to an outfit that will allow me to trade futures with a small amount of capital to start with, but with a decent amount of leverage? I know having success on Wall Street comes down to being in the right situation and I would appreciate any insight that would guide me in the right direction. Feel free to reach me as well at:

  858. 858 Vic

    Good day!
    Very experienced(>6 y, 39y.o.) descrete trader (S&P500) looking for job in Europe. I would like to go beyond my home office and expand the range of professional communication.
    Master’s degree in Physics. Salary is not needed.
    Thanks in advance for any proposition. VictorTraderCZ()gmailcom

  859. 859 Dusan K.


    does anyone knows any proprietary firm that offer trading with a low deposit ie 1000$ and have a leverage of 10:1 at least?


  860. 860 T.K.

    Hi Babak. You might want to add this European prop firm: CIT Cologne Independent Traders, based in Cologne, Germany.

    Thank you, I’ve added them.

  861. 861 Dude85

    Hi Guys,

    I am posting this on behalf of my partner who is looking to trade at a new firm/bank.

    After sending some Cv’s around we have had some responses one being Pulsarcap,

    A London based firm, they ask to prove yourself by means of a market simulation where you pay £300 as a safety deposit.

    Does anyone know anything about this company ??

  862. 862 rahul

    hey hi everyone i am a derivatives trader , trading commodities can anyone suggest me good trading firms

  863. 863 tim

    hi, i am looking for remote/ direct access trading firm with 100% firms capital. is any body have idea or list of firms . please mail me..

  864. 864 HedgeGuy

    Just saw an ad here in NY for SFG trading. Opening up an office. I think they come from Montreal. Anyone trading with them? Would not like to open up to them if not good guys.

  865. 865 John

    Hedge Guy,
    I trade with SFG Trading in a remote way, so far so good, but only 15 days with them so we will see if I get the my profit from them, hope I will do, because it is big company over 500 traders.

  866. 866 David

    Hi. FXDL trading is offering 5k accounts to FX traders who even don’t have good track record. It makes me suspect them. why someone would want to give you money to trade even without seeing any past record?
    Please tell if someone has any experience with them.

  867. 867 jim

    Someone asked about remote trading. I’m with KM CAPITAL MANAGEMENT. I have been with a few places in the past and had a lot of problems. I have not really had any problems with these guys. They use light speed that I like, and depending on your volume can get a pretty good deal.

  868. 868 HedgeGuy


    Wow! Thanks for fast reply. Just a few questions. Where do you trade from and where does SFG offer remote from?How are your costs. Are they low enough so that they(SFG) makes most of their money from the profit split and not from fees etc?


  869. 869 bobby

    Hi Traders,

    We have solutions for both licensed and unlicensed traders, trading groups, remote /direct access traders. All proprietary traders may not be required to make any capital contribution.a monthly desk fee and we provide our trading platform free of charge to every trader. Our commission levels are highly competitive and go as low as .0002 per share. .only you to send your resume/ last 6 months trading blotter to

  870. 870 NewGuy

    You may also want to add Virtu or via telephone at (212) 418-0100.

  871. 871 fabs

    Does anyone know if Dimension Trading Group is an actual proprietary firm or a scam?

  872. 872 Steve


    It’s a real company. I do work like a prop-trader for them. We use Blackwood platform. There are some connection issues time to time, but except that it’s quite nice to work with.

  873. 873 Dipak

    Fabs rather than wasting space of the blog information and time of others its advisable to read all the previous entries. There is lot of information about all the firms.

  874. 874 fabs

    Steve thank you so much, I was asked to come in for a job interview and since im in Boston I didn’t want to come all the way to NYC for nothing. Thanks again, and Dipak I dont think your comment was necessary!

  875. 875 John

    Hedge guy,
    and anyone who would like to start working with trustworthy trading company just drop me and email to I will introduce you to SFG, and tell you the details how to start working with them in the quickest way, it will be much more easier for guys. At this time I trade for them as a remote trader and want to start trading in the office in the near future. Anyone who live in a place where they have an office like you hedgeguy can work in their office, but I know that many of traders do not live in this particular cities so remote trading would be a good solution

  876. 876 Russel

    Hey David,
    I have also got an account with FX Direct Liquidity(FXDL). They said that its a real money account. So i started trading but when they saw more than 10% profit in a single day. They decided not to fulfill their promise by sending me a contract. So i contacted them, and in result, the Man whose name is Raphael, closed my open trades and disabled my account. And when i asked the reason then he replied very rudely that its his money and he can close the trades,if he wants. After getting such unprofessional response, i understood that i have been trapped by Scammers. So i started finding out the facts. and i got that they are working for FX High Summit broker who is Ireland based and completely unknown. So this FX Direct Liquidity (Also knows as Summer Street) is providing them many traders who trade their accounts and get volume. That’s why they started giving free training to many guys in their office. This way, they all use FX Summit’s platform. And the account which they are calling ‘real money’ account, is infact not funded with real money. That is on real server, but funded with virtual money which they have got by the broker. That’s why in the deposit ,its written - Test Deposit- AD.

    I would advise all of the traders ,especially the experienced ones, to be very careful with this company because they will use you and you will just waste your time in making money without getting anything. Infact i was shocked when one of those guys Anthony Davis told me that you just trade as much as you can, everyday and i don’t care if you lose all of the account money. I should had understood their reality at that same time but i did mistake and got trapped. If you need account, you just make a call to them, he talks to ou only 2 minutes and give you a 5k or 10k account.Moreover, you get 70% of commission. These alluring things attract a trader to work with them.In real,They are scamming people,otherwise even Warren Buffet would not give such offer that you can lose all of his money and he won’t care. Bloody Cheaters.

  877. 877 Russel

    One mpre thing, They give only 1:25 Leverage. And if their so-called real money account reaches even -1000 in margin, they don’t close any of the trades. It clearly shows that they are not real money accounts. Real BS.

  878. 878 HedgeGuy

    Russel and everyone else. Most of the FX spot broker/dealers are not legit. That’s why it is best to deal in the futures market. I know that they make it easy, that’s the rub. In the futures market you always have a clearing firm who has big bucks on deposit on the other side.

    If it looks too good to be true, it isn’t.

  879. 879 Dipak

    I agree with HedgeGuy.
    I used to daytrade equity for nearly 7 years and struggling all the time.
    Then I switched to Futures trading and am doing profits steadily since I started trading S&P emini electronic futures thru Global Futures based in California.
    The deposit is also minimal. Rather than depositing 5 to 10Gs you can trade with 1000 only!

  880. 880 Stacie

    Great post. Thinking about trading, but will avoid Maverick Trading

  881. 881 Jim

    Does anyone know of any prop shops that focus on options? I’m an experienced options trader and want to find a place that would understand what I am doing. Thanks.

  882. 882 bobby actually operates as a branch oh Hold Brothers which has been in buisness since ‘94 . specializes in only remote accounts for people who want to trade outside a physical office

  883. 883 michelle

    I’m curious if anyone knows of any prop trading firms or arcades in Asia - your insights appreciated!

  884. 884 karan

    Hi Bobby,

    I have good knowledge of the global equities markets and have traded in my home country from the last 3-4 yrs.
    I have been interviewed at Savi trading LLC for a prop trader role but the initial capital contribution is $4K and tht would be the max loss allowed on my account, also the commissions are very low, payout being 70/30. trading to be done on index futures and throught remote access.

    Just wanted your opinion on the same, is this a good value proposition and is it a good company to work with. please help me.


  885. 885 HedgeGuy


    Hold Bros. is very reputable firm so far. Is the 70/30 split on BOTH profits AND losses or is 100% charge to your $4000. Seems to me that most of the remote firms have a great business plan if they charge you all the losses and split profits. I know that they give you leverage, sometimes 20-1, but is that the reason they take 30% of the profits? No risk on their part if they can watch your P&L and limit or eliminate their risk and put it ALL on your account. What is the actual commission rate. Is there a charge for some kinds of executions? Research ALL the expenses before making a decision.

    Sorry if i have been redundant of other posts, but this is your money we are taliking about!

  886. 886 karan

    thanks hedgeguy,

    The losses are completely mine till initial $4K after which the account closes, even if i don’t get into -ve the reserve of 4K will be maintained, and leverage is 10 times the account balance (i.e iniially starting with $40K).
    Commissions are .002%. No additional cost for software, research reports or mentors.

    Tell me more about hold bros. have you or ur frnds worked with them.

  887. 887 SRI REK

    Hi All,
    Please let me know if this is a good deal.

    To trade US Stocks only , we can provide you with :
    - 100:1 leverage
    - 70%/30%payout
    - 40 cents / 1000 for Clearing
    - 10% of deposit for daily drawdown . ( 5000$ = 500$ daily stop lost )
    If you want access to :
    - US Stock Markets only , we offer Sterling Technologies ( 250$/month )
    - Futures Market only we offer you Trading Technologies
    - all Markets around the world : Fidessa ( cost of 375$/month ) It is the best option for professional traders , low cost , robust platform , access to all markets worldwide .

    Sri Rek

  888. 888 RyanE

    Just moved to Chicago, and have a strong financial background. I want to get into trading derivatives- any recommendations on merging into the market?

  889. 889 bobby

    Hi karen,

    with they give you of your profits(almost 0) they dont share in the profits they don’t share in the losses. They provide you w/ the software, the leverage and charge tyou a commision based off of how active you are.

    hedgefundguy is right about Hold brothers. They are very reputable…..forget about ’so far’ …THEY are the original established in 1994….. 16 years in buisness as PROP.. I hear everone talking about these little fly by nite firms…here today gone tommorrow…along w/ your $. Bottom line like I have said in the past ASSENT ( until the software buy out) Dimension Trading — Hold Brothers– Schonfield/Opus—these are the Big FOUR….these are the well capitalized firms that have been in buisness for over 10 years and have real traders and will most likly be around for another 10 years

  890. 890 Dipak

    Yeah Bobby is right ….do add AVATAR trading also to the list they are also reputable and are always on their toes! Also they are very flexible…i love that firm.

  891. 891 manish

    You missed Futures First Arguably the largest trading firm worldwide( No. of employees wise)…

  892. 892 HedgeGuy


    I looked up FuturesFirst and am suitably impressed. Do they have and thoughts to starting up in the US?

  893. 893 Robinson

    Hello fellow traders,

    I recently worked for a company called Paramount Equity Partners. The training is terrible if your brand new to trading. Also if you decide to leave early, don’t think your leaving with your 3,000 dollar risk deposit. THEY WILL FIND A WAY TO KEEP IT. This place has very little integrity and because they are a brand new company they don’t stand for anything. I don’t say these things to bash them but it is important that the trading community be made aware of the snakes that are lurking to bite the novice trader. Since then I’ve moved on to trading my own capital an have done very well for myself. I don’t know if this will help anyone but this site has been a safe place for those wanting to get in the business of creating wealth for themselves.

  894. 894 Rob Deeley

    TRADING PROGRAMS** available direct for CASH, BG’s, MTN’s, CDs, Bonds, SKRs (in top 25 Bank) - High historical returns per week.

    PROGRAM FOR 1 Million and above - CASH ONLY

    Minimum 1 Million and above - USD / GBP / EURO - No Maximum, Monthly return of 65% historically.

    Required to pass compliance:

    1) CIS, scanned copy of Passport and Current Bank statement no older than 3 days.
    2) Compliance takes 24 hours max.
    3) Clients has conference call with CIO and myself Compliance Officer.
    4) Clients signs Goldman Sachs account opening forms money is transferred to client controlled account with Power of Attorney for trading purposes only by the hedge fund and trading docs.
    5) Trading Begins.

    Client receives weekly pay-outs.

    PROGRAM FOR 100 Million and above - CASH, BGs, MTNs, CDs, SKRs (SKR must be in top 25 Bank)

    Minimum 100 Million and above - USD / GBP / EURO
    40 Week Program – 100% return per week historically

    Required to pass compliance:

    1) CIS and scanned copy of passport.
    2) Letter of Intent for trade
    3) Letter of Non-Solicitation & Request
    4) Board of Resolution Letter
    5) If Cash: Tear sheet or bank statement no older than 3 days
    6) If a Bank Guarantee: scanned front and back copy
    7) If an SKR: Copy of the bank SKR
    8) If an MTN: copy of the screen shot of the MTN
    9) If Bonds in a Bank: we will require scanned copy of the front and back of the bonds and history of ownership with an up to date valuation document.
    10) Bank confirmation letter

    Once the above information is received it takes 48 hours to pass compliance with the trading platform. The Platform Manager will then speak with the client direct, explaining everything in detail. A MOU (memorandum of understanding) will then be issued and then a Trade contract will be sent to the client for signature. On receiving the signed Trade Contract the Client will go into trade.

    If you have any further questions with regarding these trading programs please do not hesitate to contact me:

    Thank You and Kind Regards,

    Rob Deeley
    Trading Platform Consultant
    TMA Technical Ltd

  895. 895 Jessica Karavites


    1st of all, guys do more research before you give the company a bad review or put them in a list where it doesn’t belong. 2nd of all, there are no hidden fees of any kind that the company charges. The contact is clear and there is no confusion in the wording. The company and its employer lets one know from the get go of all the restrictions and things the company does not do. For instance, one will find out from day one that Lynx does not sponsor any visas. Also, the company tells you right away, the training is absolutely free, it will not come out of your commision. If you ask the questions you will get answers. Also, the company does not have any history of legal issues at all. It is under a strict supervision and ran by advanced management. I personally monitor the performance of this and many other New York Trading Companies, that’s why I had to take my time and personally comment.

  896. 896 bobby

    Thats a shocker ! A new fly by nite firm found a away to take ur $? It cant be. As I have said, if the firm is new they are probably not making $ becasue they don’t have a lot of traders under there belt. But if the firm has been around for a long time -Dimension Trading or ( Hold Brothers) and the otheres i mentioned in other posts- they dont have to rip you off. They actually provide a real service. Check out 3-D Trading In Elmsford, NY as well. 3 Guys there with close to 15 years EACH in the day trading buisness.!…Or you can pick the Paramonts and Costal Securities of the world….good luck and use your brians when picking a firm or end up like Robinson!!

  897. 897 Robinson

    Hmmmmm……normally I don’t agree with lower life forms like bobby who only offer a sarcastic view of someone who doesn’t have all the “big money” to get a lawyer an they make it seem as if, novice traders don’t do their due diligence.

    Furthermore, besides this amazing site there aren’t many venues to find out which companies are brand new an which ones have been around a while. Also, I warned other traders to avoid this place because of my negative experience, but its not to say that 3-D trading wouldn’t rip someone off as well. I’m SURE they have, thats how they got big.

    Consider the failure rate of those who enter this field. An its obvious to see unless your trading your OWN capital in Futures or Forex its a losing battle. So next time big head bobby don’t jump to conclusions about someone’s experience nor should anyone listen to the arrogance of someone whose made the same mistakes or worse. This is a place for sharing not cutting people down so you can feel better about yourself. You need a hug loser.

  898. 898 Dipak

    It is you who are jumping to conclusions ROBINSON not Bobby….
    by giving this statement about 3-D “I’m SURE they have, thats how they got big. ”
    Sounds like u r bitter and looks like this is ur gameplan of how to become big !!!

  899. 899 Robinson

    What the heck are you talking about Dipak? You make it seem like I want a prop-firm? An to say the have NEVER ripped anyone off is foolish.

  900. 900 Algo

    Wondering about futures prop firms. I went with for a while but their platform is miserable.
    Looking for a firm with a decent platform, can trade remotely and is stable financially.
    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

  901. 901 denis

    hey guys,
    any info on Bimunai Investments, located in Pickering, ON?
    would be interested in them as i’m going for an interview with them.


  902. 902 bobby


    Why would you say I am a lower form of life? I have been trading since 95. When Soes Bandits were abundunt ( when did you start in the buisness?) I traded at Alteck for years back then…ever heard if them? I am simply tring to help new traders steer clear of the fly by night firms and offer them some sound advice about trading with the bigger established firms. To attack my charector on line with out knowing me seems best!

  903. 903 Dipak

    Bobby is right. Robingson’s comments were tasteless.

  904. 904 HedgeGuy


    Not certain about futures, but almost any firm using Redi as a platform should be OK as they ckear through Goldman Sachs, who is very choosy. Redi is a Spear Leeds product which I have used off and on for about 15 years.

    I am also looking for a futures prop firm. If you find some, let me know.

  905. 905 Robinson

    Well Bobby you have to admit you didn’t exactly shy away from attacking me either.

    You made it seem as if I didn’t do any homework before giving these people my money. An honestly I was taken back by how you attacked me without knowing me, but I don’t think me attacking you or you attacking me helps to further the cause of this website. I don’t have a problem saying that will never happen again as long as it doesn’t happen again on your side.

  906. 906 BeamerUSA

    Man this good site is going to dogs….somebody has to monitor these threatening Psycho type of comments being exchanged!

  907. 907 Mark

    Hello Guys,

    Do you know any Prop Firm located in the are of Boston. I see many of them are located in NYC but I can’t find one in Boston.


  908. 908 Bobby

    Fair enough Robertson. I just hate when new traders get taked advantage of. Believe me it has happened ot me when I got started as well and it just plain sucks.

    So far I have 3 friends using (Hold Brothers - remote servicve branch) and they are all happy with the main complaint being there is no demo version.,…but basically they said you trade 100 shares for the 1st week and get comfy w/ the system and then move to larger share size…

    I still perfer 3D Trading out of Elmsford NY which is a group of Dimension…they have a demo and they work with new traders on stock selection/ entry exit points/ …they get pretty technical with the charts but that is what i love…they do free mentorship classes and it is very helpful to see what other traders are looking at see what other avenues you could take when in a trade :)

  909. 909 Andy

    Does anybody know some interesting companies to contact in Vancouver/Canada? I will live there for some months and would like make some contacts.

    I’m the technically oriented trader having my own system using data mining and neural nets. I’ve done my first posting on Jun 6th but don’t want to bore people here repeating it.

    For me this is still an informative and interesting thread.

    Thank you, Andy

  910. 910 HedgeGuy


    vancouver is terrific city to relocate to. Don’t have any specific info about prop firms, but there a few in Montral that look good. Maybe they can help you set up a branch etc. I will be in Bellingham WA,near the end of September, looking to relocate there for the summer months. Live in South Florida for the winter. Look at for my bio, and if interested in having lunch, let me know.

  911. 911 Andy

    @ HedgeGuy:

    Sounds interesting, Bellingham is not far away, let’s meet if you have time. Here’s my email:

  912. 912 Senay Wayne


    Does anyone have any info on Echotrade?…they seem like a legit prop firm to work for,especially trading remotely.


  913. 913 Babak

    Senay, not to sound too fanboyish but everything that I’ve heard about echo is good. The founders initially worked at Bright but then hung up their own shingle.

  914. 914 EZ

    hey guys, please please help
    i want to get into trading, where do i start?
    i have 10 yrs in financial industry(so im not a complete idiot) but unfortunately not in trading. and NO college degree.
    im located in new york, any shops you can recommend that have really good training programs for new guys and really work with them ?

    idealy want to work with commodities and/or forex,
    but really have no preference as long as someone will teach me how to analyze, trade etc.. from the ground up

    babak, anything?

    thanks in advance

  915. 915 jim

    In answer to your questions, km capital management is working out for me, been 3 months and i like light speed a lot. let me know if u need anymore help.

  916. 916 Ez

    Km is in Pa, I’m was asking about NYC ? Anything guys?

  917. 917 jim

    EZ, I was trading from the trading floor in Manhattan with KM Capital Management, right now im remote u can contact them to find out more for what your looking to do.

  918. 918 Senay Wayne

    That’s great to hear,I will probably trade with them very soon.

  919. 919 EZ

    thanks Jim,
    i will contact them today

  920. 920 John

    I trade for SFG Trading and so far so good, everything is ok with them, they are very flexible for my needs, have nice support, high payouts and leverage. Honestly I can recommend them. let me know if anyone is interested in so I will take my manager to call you. Just give me a short email at

  921. 921 Ritzy Capital

    Ritzy Capital is hiring talented traders, Lowest Risk deposit and Full ECN. Free Training not like others, and more…….

    propietary firm

  922. 922 Owen

    Is there any brokarage firms pay higher leverage than 2:1 for mobile trading stocks or any prop firms with mobile trading for overnight stock positions?

    Thanks All

  923. 923 A Prop Trader

    There are fair few firms on this list that charge big fee’s for training, particularly the London based shops. Don’t do it! It really should not be necessary to pay out for training when there are sites like and Brett Steenbargers TraderFeed site around.

  924. 924 Mikem

    Hi all,
    I’m based in Orlando and looking for a prop trading firm here or can be remotely. I’ve been in the financial services sector for sometime and have done some forex, futures an equity trading in the past. I have my series 7 and looking for a good trading platform and a good training. thanks

  925. 925 Bobby

    Mike—check out 3d trading….914-592-1240

  926. 926 Dmitry

    Hello, guys.

    Can someone advise a prop trading company that would offer the futures trading services for those clients who would like to open group accounts.

    Thank you,

    Dmitry (

  927. 927 Mikem

    Do you know of a Prop trading firm in Orlando FL?

  928. 928 CarlosGA

    I am looking for firms and traders that are are active trading CME and ICE Energy markets. Both futures andoOptions. Any info would be very helpful.
    Any help would be highly appreciated. Please e-mail me at
    Thank you very Much

  929. 929 alejandro

    guys!!! i need to know wich is the BEST trainning program of the entire list!! i want to star my career but i need the most complete and serious training.

    Please help me. i see a lot of programs but i dont know wich is really good!

    if you can, my mail is


  930. 930 Wesley

    Hey guys!

    I’m looking for a proptrading company based in Montreal, specializing on trading FOREX, commodities not only equities.
    I’m aware of CFT financials, just sent out my CV, still waiting for respond. Anybody has a review on this company?
    Is there anything else in this beautiful city? Please, let me know!
    If anybody needs opinion on such companie as Swift Trade, Title Trading, Lynx Trading (in Montreal), Bank Desjardins (Dep. of International Trades) - feel free to ask, worked for all of them.

    Wes. (

  931. 931 Matthew Sacchetti

    I have been searching for a strong, futures broker that is very liberal in their day trading margin. I have only found one broker that offers $300 per s&p e-mini contract and all the rest offer $500 per contract intra-day. I have looked heavily, but can’t seem to find one, can anyone refer me to a reputable firm that will offer less than $500 per contract margin intra-day? There have to be others out there. Any info would help. Thanks.

  932. 932 Robinson

    Hey Matthew,

    I was wondering which company will let you trade Futures with only 300.00 on margin? I’m currently demoing Ninja Trader but their not that great. If you could let me know it would great…..Thank you.

  933. 933 NY


    I read ALL your postings. very helpful -thanks. I know you usually don’t make recommendations but I have a special case.

    I am 28 yrs old and was laid off from Goldman. I technically worked in operations but directly supported the FX and Derivatives Sales and Trading desk.

    I have been day trading equity options using Ameritrade since college. I live in New York and want to join a firm. I am hoping the technology/environment/people will increase my returns. I am not discriminating against equity only shops though.

    I went to a NYU‘S Stern School of Business - undergrad program. With my market experience and resume I should have a good shot at joining one of these firms. I also should have a great shot at getting in a top MBA program. No one has mentioned the brand equity of these firms for future academic/professional endeavors.

    1. Which firms are most impressive on the resume when applying to the big banks or to an MBA program?
    2. If you had to do it over, which New York firms would you pick?
    3. I know this is a selfish question but since you know my background. What firms do you think might be a good fit for me?

    I am at the point where I done a lot of research and ready to apply. Answers to my questions will greatly help me (probably others as well). Your help is greatly appreciated. By the way thanks for the list. It is probably the most comprehensive list across many subjects on the net.

  934. 934 Rob

    Hey guys-

    I’m a big fan of this forum all the great depth of information it provides on the world of trading. If this question has been asked before, I apologize, but I was looking for a recommendation on a trading firm that offers a solid training program and requires NO initial capital contribution (if this even exists)?

    I have a finance background but picked up an accounting job 2 years ago out of college when the economy tanked. Accounting is a boring nightmare, kind of like the movie Groundhogs Day, but it’s allowed me to save money and I’m at the point where I am ready to start a career as a trader.

    I’m open to any advice on where to start and or how to navigate a career as a trader.


  935. 935 Zach

    Does anyone know of any prop trading firms in Indianapolis? I have looked on google but not finding anything.


  936. 936 Bobby

    Zach- I dont believe there are any. Try They specialize in remote accounts and they are a branch of Hold Brothers so there is no funny buisness

  937. 937 HedgeGuy

    A good friend of mine just submitted a proposal to World Trade Securities and was asked about how much money he was going to put up. World Trades advertises that you do not need a deposit. I guess they have changed their business plan. FYI

  938. 938 MokMad

    Iam trading with them, very good firm. Actually care about your success..extras such as chat room, low commision, no hidden charges. They are an education company, thats what they started as…so they focus on risk management and helping you improve trading methods.

    Very nice office, or you can trade remotely. I know my stuff and I chose them and Im very happy. If I can get people to join they offer me and incentive, so please email me and I will have them contact you. THey are very good again, if not id be searching for a new place.

    We Sterling Trader Pro its ok platform. I think they are going to be offering another platroom/service too.

  939. 939 LondonTrade

    Hi guys, this blog is fascinating. I’m so glad i stumbled across it.

    The list of prop firms above is huge, and I really want to look into the ones that engange in High-Frequency Trading, as im just getting into the area.
    If theres anyone that knows, would you mind posting a list of the ones that trade in this way? especially if theyre London/Europe based. But also others…

    Thanks so much for your time.

  940. 940 Michael

    Probably a good idea for you would be opening your own trading floor in NY, let me know if you would like know more details we are just serching a right person to run the trading floor in NY.

    If you like you can trade asa remote trader with SFG, remote traders required $5000 min deposit, in SFG we required $2500 min deposit for remote trading, fell free to contact with me.

  941. 941 SRI Rek

    Any reviews good or bad, about element trading

    Sri Rek

  942. 942 Kyle

    Element trading is run by Charles Vacarro. He is a thief. He stole money from me and everybody else at HLV Captial, Team Trading and now he has opened yet another shop, Element. Yes I know the rates are cheap, caveat emptor.

  943. 943 Joe

    I am a former registered CTA, CPO and AP. Also, former futures exchange member. I am thinking of starting a remote trading arcade for commodity futures and futures option trading. 100 % payout using your own funds. Purpose of arcade is to get very lowest commission rates for traders so that they can compete with professionals on commission cost. A big savings and a trading edge. All accounts are separate and not liabile for other trader’s accounts. Funds deposited with FCM for clearing in master account but separate sub-account for each trader. Other traders will not have access to your trading record. This will for futures only. No equities except single stock futures. If you would like to receive additional information as plans are finalized, email:

  944. 944 Trader Joe

    I am a former registered CTA, CPO and AP. Also, former futures exchange member. I am thinking of starting a remote trading arcade for commodity futures and futures option trading. 100 % payout using your own funds. Purpose of arcade is to get very lowest commission rates for traders so that they can compete with professionals on commission cost. A big savings and a trading edge. All accounts are separate and not liabile for other trader’s accounts. Funds deposited with FCM for clearing in master account but separate sub-account for each trader. Other traders will not have access to your trading record. This will for futures only. No equities except single stock futures. If you would like to receive additional information as plans are finalized, email:

  945. 945 Alexander

    Joe, how can you compete with Interactive Brokers’ commissions for futures markets?

  946. 946 HedgeGuy


    If you are an active futures trader, there is a almost no one who is cheaper than interactive, but keep in mind that they have little customer support by phone. So when the stuff hits the fan. no one is home. email only.

  947. 947 Darrell

    Greetings traders,

    First off I want to thank everyone who posts. I almost made the mistake of joining up with Maverick before I stumbled on this page and found out about the crazy amount it took to go through there training as well as their initial capital requirements.

    I am currently in grad school but my days are completely free so I am looking for a prop firm that offers remote trading (I’m in middle-america unfortunately). The biggest thing I need is leverage. I have about 5-10k but its just not enough to justify trading myself, especially given commissions. I could use some-more training, I think we all already can, but I am already pretty confident to jump right in as I have been paper trading for the past 2 years and have come out profitable, about 20% total gain per year. So in other words I’m not willing to pay thousands for training just to join a firm like Maverick. I’m hoping I can get 10x margin but I would settle for even 7 or 8.

    My only other question is do these prop firms allow derivative trading or just equity? I myself have been much more successful when trading options, or at least hedging myself with options.

    Feel free to contact me via e-mail:

    Any help is greatly appreciated


  948. 948 Michael

    what is your commission for one contract in Interactive Brokers? Would you be interested to trade with Prop Company?

  949. 949 Sam

    Hi I am based in ottawa, canada and am looking for a prop. company. I have some experience in the markets but I think I might have to relearn to make a profit. Does anyone know of something in ottawa, canada

  950. 950 alejandro

    Hi Darren,
    you take a trainning with Maverick? how they are? i want to find the best trainning, if i gonna a make a big spend in a trainning program i need at least the better. what firm do you consider that have the best trainnig program, the cost its not the problem in these moment.

    anyone guys?


  951. 951 Alexander

    Michael, here’s what I pay for Interactive Brokers futures commissions

    What exactly are you offering?

  952. 952 Michael

    THanks for the link, My offer depends on the volume you make, but anytime our commission rate will be lower that Interactive Brokers. But I fdon’t know if you are interested in trading with prop company, we give access to firm capital like you would get leverage 1:20 and payout like 70/30, we can give also 1:4 leverage with 100/0 payout. Let me know how do you like it

  953. 953 alex

    hey does anyone knows something about MGB trading? i am about to start trading with them i need to know, if anyone knows, tell me thanks!!

  954. 954 Mel

    I’m looking at trading full time. What is the advantage of trading through a firm versus just trading on my own? I know for starters they probably provide extra capitals and training, but if I don’t need those, is there still an advantage?

  955. 955 HedgeGuy

    The big point is commissions. Most prop firms can and will charge lower commissions than the etrades and TD wtarehouse folks. Many charge around $1.00 per thousand shares traded. If you buy 500 and sell 500 that 1000 shares. They are geared to the day trader and can offer daytrader margin plus. To daytrade at non prop firm you need $25000 and get 4-1 leverage. Many prop firms will let you put up only $5000 and give you 10-1 or more, but they share in your profits and take none of your losses. Also they add on other fees that you may not understand or know about until you get hit with them.

    You have to find out where they stand on your business, Are they making their money on fees and charges, or are they dependent on your sucess in trading. There is a fine line and you have to find it out sooner than later.

    There is an expression in cards. If after the 4th hand you don’t know who the sucker is, its YOU.

  956. 956 dhride

    HedgeGuy is right.
    Sadly 95% of the firms make their revenue from[volume] charges and commissions. This is a fact that most prop traders have to deal with. If you have a Trading Record you can use that to your advantage if you want the firm to fully back you or if you are just looking for a greater Buying Power.
    In my case I try to meet my firm in the middle I run two ATS. One trades about a 2MM a month, which is also my main source of income. The other, a rebate trading ATS that trades 2MM daily, which for the most part breaks even. I give my firm high volume and in return they back my trading and give me a 15 cent/thousand commission rate.
    Also, most firms will hold on to your deposit for a year so if you think you might need that money down the road it might not be a good idea to join a firm.
    Advantages of trading with a firm are higher leverage, access to greater liquidity, better infrastructure, and lower commissions.

  957. 957 Mikem

    Hey, what do you think of Hold Brothers and Xerxes Trading? I am looking for a broker dealer that can hold my series 7/66 and be able to trade.

  958. 958 Mel

    Thanks guys, that helps a bit. I’d like to spend some time in a trading firm just to learn more. The more I learn, the more I don’t know…
    That is a very significant difference in commissions.

  959. 959 Mel

    The list is great, but having the city they are based out of would be so helpful. I’d like to contact some firms in Vancouver (my favorite city) to see what they have to offer.

  960. 960 HedgeGuy


    Hold Bros. is a first rate firm which has been around the block a few times. Started out small and grew by having high standards. My cursory investigation with talking to a few of the resident traders is that are evenly balanced between fees and profit participation. They are unwilling to back a person who does not make profits or looks like they will not be sucessful. My resident guy says that they will try and get a losing trader to leave before they may bust out. Very honest. Don’t know anything about Xerxes.

  961. 961 Paul

    $2500.00 RISK CAPITAL
    up to 100:1 leverage you start 1- 60
    - 70%/30%payout


    !!!!!—— BEST DEAL FROM ALL THIS ADDS GUARANTEE —————————!!!!!!!!!!!!

  962. 962 Mr K

    Many of you seem to be looking for training, which can be found in a real prop trading company, i’m talking about a Chicago or NY based firm that has at least 10 years of experience and is known for turning smart kids into successful traders . Forget about the sub llc and wana be trading company .

    For the others that are experienced , look into europroptrading , I have been with them since September and I have the best deal available, their futures training program is VERY expensive [ 7k euros ] but they will finance it if you have experienced in Equities. They give me 93% payout and 0.09/1000 clearing !!! Beat that ….

  963. 963 alejandro

    Tanks Mr. K, of all the firms in NY or Chicago, which is for you the best trainning program?, the best of all.

    please your answer its really important for my.

    tank you.

    Alejandro Arbelaez

  964. 964 Alexander

    Mr K, regarding locations you’re right, the best comes from NY and Chicago, but the best NEVER charges a single cent for training take Richard Denis and his “turtle traders ” class of 1984 for example.. Good luck

  965. 965 DePaul Dude

    I literally came across this website yesterday morning and was so intrigued by the posts that I started reading from post #1 on Apr 4, 2007, and just finished the last post a few minutes ago.

    I am interested in learning more about trading and will do my own research online before addressing the community with redundant questions. This web page has been an excellent starting point.

    I’ll mention that I am at the tail end of DePaul’s MBA program and plan to move to Chicago from Rockford, IL, before year-end because the remaining courses in the program are held at the downtown Loop campus. I look forward to learning more about the trading world and what opportunities there may be in Chicago for new traders.

    Keep up the great comments folks!

    DePaul Dude

  966. 966 Babak

    Mr. K, are you affiliated with Europrop? I ask because you mention you joined them in September and their website was registered August 22nd 2010 - just days before. If you’re not affiliated (other than being a trader) how did you find them so fast?

  967. 967 Mel

    I’m still trying to understand the benefit of working for a firm… with margin, my account lately hits over the $1M mark. I pull in 1 to 2K per day right now, but the market has been very nice the last couple of months.
    I have a meeting with Bright, so hopefully that will provide moreinsight as to what goes on in a pro shop. I’m self taught, so I have no experience in a professional trading environment. Perhaps that’s a good thing…

  968. 968 Mel

    I also saw a few comments about age. MQ was concerned about being over 30… and proptrader figured that was old. Well I’m proof that is a total myth!!

    I remember 30 and I wouldn’t have had the wisdom to do nearly as well as I do now.
    Brokers love young people with boundless energy churning those commissions. I remember racking up $5k in commissions in a single day… $5M in trades… I made $3500. That was a turning point for me, I’m now at maybe a couple of hundred a day in commissons and still get $2 to $4k for myself.

  969. 969 bobbyo

    I found that the training classes on stock selction and time/trade managmant were great with a branch of Hold Brothers My friedn took them. they are informal and really teach u from the ground up

  970. 970 D

    Yeah, given Mel’s scenario, what would the adavantage of a firm be?

    Connectivity/Speed? Anything else?

  971. 971 Mel

    I should mention that the commissions at Bright are barely a fraction of what I pay, but that by itself wouldn’t be enough to go to the office daily…
    I’m sure there is a benefit of having other traders around and learning from them…

  972. 972 Dhride


    If you can’t really find an advantage of trading from an office then maybe you don’t really need it. One question about the 1-2K daily returns you are making. Are they realized gains or is just the appreciation of your portfolio?

    If you put 1MM in the market everyday using your electronic broker then I assume that you are working with $250,000 and a leverage ratio of 4x. Your return on that capital is about 100% a year. Nicely done!. Why not put 100K down at a prop firm get a 20x have 2MM to work making 2-4K a day(assuming you can replicate your strategy with double the money) while putting the other 150K to work in something else. As I see it you can get much more out of your money by working with a firm. Just an idea.

    I am sure that your situation is much different than mine. In my case, access to deep liquidity providers, dark pools, execution algorithms, floor routes, a broker on the floor of the NYSE in my IM, access to 40x leverage, dedicated Internet lines, collocation, cheap commissions, and others, that for you might not be important, come at a cost and the firms bring those costs down.
    Also, if you are serious about your trading and want a career in trading is better to have in your resume that your work with/for a firm than showing your e*trade statements.
    You are making good money, why not learn about how a good firm can help you go from 1MM to 10MM.
    I am based in NYC and I have seen a bunch of sweat shops so be aware of what firm you choose, a good firm will give you a serious edge, good firms tend to have serious traders, good traders that make money in ways that might be totally new to you.

  973. 973 Dhride

    At my previous firm my average slippage cost was $600 a day. At my new firm my slippage is half that. Those milliseconds do matter. Might not seem like much but the collocation, dedicated lines, and routing algorithms save me over 4K a month.
    The monthly cost of this technology through the firm is about 2K a month compare to 5K if I went to get it on my own.

  974. 974 rich

    Dhride what firm are you trading with at present?

  975. 975 Kusteau

    Wow Dhride thank you for the first actual valuable post with actual insightful information. Newbies would do well to try and understand what the hell you just said…

    Like Alec Baldwin said in Glen Garry Glen Ross, some guys sit around in the bar and say “yeah I used to be a salesman (DayTrader) it’s a tough racket”…and glug down their shot…

    Unless you can utilize the full spectrum of technology used by the worlds top shops, props and trading arcades, it’s a challenge.

    I’d like to ask the same question as rich what firm are you with Dhride?


  976. 976 nycsoon

    Golden Networking ( is organizing the High-Frequency Trading Experts Workshop 2010 (, “Practical Implementation of High-Frequency Trading Strategies,” on December 9th and 10th in New York City. It has been recommended for executives in finance and investments who work at Investment Banks, Hedge Funds, Pension Funds, Broker Dealers, Consultancy Groups, Prime Brokers, Solution Providers and Exchanges and wish to gain a thorough understanding and practical knowledge of high-frequency trading.

  977. 977 Mel

    To be honest dhride, that is the main reason I’m going to check out a firm. I make a nice living and occasionally I catch the carrot (had a 60k day last week) but it is still comments like yours that make me want to get out there and see what else there is. You pegged my numbers pretty quick, it’s fairly easy to catch who is experienced trading vesus experinced posting after a bit of reading.
    I read your post and it reminds me of hearing about fast cars and actually having driven one at high speed… trading at high speeds with dedicated connections, little slippage negligable commissions… could be a rush. :)
    It’s funny, but I had pretty much decided not to bother with firms until I saw your post… now again I’m intrigued. Definately worth a short flight to check it out!

  978. 978 Mel

    dhride, your comment about a 100% return just clicked… I checked and it actually works out to 82% when I factor in losses and commissions. Seems high, but I’m pleased. :)
    Funny, I regularly check ROI on my investment account, but not my working account…

    When you asked if they are realized gains, I would say yes since I consider appreciation to be stocks that I continue to hold. Those figures are after closing positions. I use multiple accounts. The main account is for my income stream and there I day trade but for some strategies, I may hold stocks & option combos for a week or so. This was the account I was referring to.

    Now for the new people, this you may want to consider!

    Out of the profits in that account, I keep 50% in the account, effectively giving myself a weekly raise since more capital means more profits (or should). I take 30% for myself and 20% goes into my investment account (my retirement fund). I lso trade my investments, but wit a very different style. I have over the last 18 months since I took it over been getting 17% returns. But on the other side, it is based on very safe trades/investments.

  979. 979 karel

    I’m looking for Prop firm or group which use a Lightspeed trading platform.

    100% Payout
    lower commission than 0.0039 per share
    risk capital lower than 5k (optimum 2.5k)
    leverage 1:20 (for start 1:10 is ok)
    not licence require

    Thank you.

  980. 980 Dipak

    Go to Avatar Trading in NYC they have option of Lightspeed but I don’t think nowadays anybody gives 100% payout.

  981. 981 Alexander

    karel, you’re looking for brokerage not a prop firm.. Let’s not confuse it.. A Classic prop firm is a trading company that has its own trading concept, you can call it edge and teaches it to its traders while taking a portion of their profits.. What you’re looking for is a “bucket shop” or in today’s terms a brokerage company.. Look at Interactive brokers for lowest industry commissions. Good luck

  982. 982 karel

    99% payout its fine…I think I so similar deal with somebody at Broad street trading (not sure) but with different platform…

  983. 983 karel

    Ok. I was trading with Cy Group. But Iam not full comfortable with their trading platform (Laser - stops modul). I try and really like a Lightspeed platform. So thats why…

  984. 984 karel

    …and they (CY Group) give me also similar deal.

  985. 985 jim

    I have been with km capital management for a long time. And trust me, its hard to find a good prop trading company to deal with it. They use Light Speed which I love, I have good rates per share.They Offer higher leverage to decent volume traders 10.1 20.1…
    full pay outs.. Their web site and how to contact them is, they should be listed above.

  986. 986 Dhride

    Rich & Kusteau ,
    Most of my trading is automated; I trade with a few different broker/dealers, depending on their fee schedule I choose what algo/strategy to run through their pipes. I work with a small group of traders. We pull our resources together to get better deals. Most of our business (85%) is done with Lime brokerage.
    You are doing well for yourself, wish you luck on finding a firm that can propel your trading. I am sure there is one out there that is right for you…..

  987. 987 Johnson


    Does anyone trade with or have any comments on OCMCAPITAL. (website There was some adverse commnets on them in a few forums and now the threads have been removed…so difficult to know what is going on.

  988. 988 Alexander

    hey guys, is anybody going to Traders’ Expo of 2010 in Vegas ? It’s going to be between Nov 17-th and 20-th, so in 2 days..

  989. 989 harris

    Great information here. I was curious, has anyone seen a ranking of the prop trading houses listed here or has anyone done anything like that for themselves? Would be interesting to see.

  990. 990 harris

    …also, does anyone know of any prop trading houses in Brazil? Thanks ,

  991. 991 Jon

    I am looking to start a prop shop. I have a license for the M4 trading platform source code from and I am looking for partners. Please email me if interested, based in NJ.

  992. 992 Richard

    Wow, spent a lot of time reading posts this morning and really happy that I came across this website. I was a Health Physicist for many years but just started trading on my own 2 years ago. I started with around 100K in my account and trade primarily options. I have taken draws off my account of around 90K each of the last two years and my account still stands at around 100K so I am looking to expand my trading hopefully trading for a prop firm. As you can see I am up over 100% over the past two years if I exclude my draws.

    I know that most firms would want more than 2 years of trading records but still want to look into trading my options strategy for a firm. With trading primarily options what would be my best firms to look at? Looks like a lot specialize more in the day trading of stocks and not of options but I may be mistaken. Most of my options trades are 2-4 weeks in length but some longer and some shorter.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am willing but hesitant to relocate after living in Columbus, OH for 15 years so I would prefer to trade remotely.

    You can also email me directly at


  993. 993 Mikem

    Any info on Protrade Securites and Dimension Trading? Thanks

  994. 994 Pria S

    Hi to All

    I’m basically represent a brokerage firm in US Market, We are willing to assist anyone willing to Starting a Prop Account, lowest ticket charges, Competitive Rates, Highest Buying power. anyone interested pls email your contact details to

  995. 995 Mel

    I never take anyone seriously if they can’t type and have a generic email. Using abbreviations like pls are fine for texting or twitter where you are limited, but in a forum it shouts out to me that this person can’t be old enough to be representing a brokerage.
    Pria, if you are legitimate, post your firm’s website so that people can check it out first.

  996. 996 Ill Trader

    S7= Series 7 license some firms require depending on how they are set up.
    •The license issued by NASD to individuals to allow them to sell securities. Holders of a Series 7 license are known as Registered Representatives

  997. 997 Michael

    Last time I have changed the prop company I have been trading for, for more comparativie one, I just want to share with you guys that I found out that in last time there is more and more competitive companies, so why to waste our money for smal payouts high clearing etc. You can drop me an email any time to ask any question about the company because I don’t want to advertise anything here, but anyway I know they have the best payout out there, the only problem is they don’t take very small traders. my email:

  998. 998 Johny

    any thoughts on “remote day trader” and “Spire Trading Group, LLC”. I live in Palm Beach county and needing more references about this prop trading groups as I love my money and don’t want to be robbed haha anyhow, any feedback would be much appreciated.

  999. 999 Fernando Murillo

    Johny, you just need to find a firm that has been around for some time. Even if they charge higher commission, they are reliable.

    Just look for those firms that have been out for a long time.

    Usually if the deal is to good to be true, then you have to be careful. Cause starting in this business can be really hard, and if you don’t know what you are getting yourself into, it might cost you.

    So from what I know, Dimension, Echotrade, T3Live, Assent, Broad St, and CY have been around for some time and are descent. They might be some other mores, but these are the ones I hear a lot of.

    If you have a series 7 I would recommend Echotrade. That is the one I will look to try to get into the future.
    Right now with Star Alliance, which is a partner of Dimension. Been there for 3 years, and it’s good enough for me. Software sucks, but it’s a legit firm. Echotrade will be a step up for me…but have to study for that Series 7…

    Good luck in your search.

  1000. 1000 Hedgeguy


    Spire clears through Goldman(Spear Leeds} so they have to be better than most. Met with the manager last year and almost joined them’\, but they are only equities and I trade futures as well.. I would give them an extra look.

  1001. 1001 Deryl

    Hi guys,
    I see that a lot of posts here, many by successful traders. Traders who make living trading.

    I am looking for a day trading mentor, a trader who is a successful and make instant income and want to mentor another trader like me to help me to be consistent and profitable in trading, and the mentor will take % of my profit , I don’t say how much because it depends on the mentor, he will decide how much he wants to be paid. Only one thing is sure this is win win solution, I will make money the mentor will make money. I am very serious about trading I have long trading experience but never could have keep being consistent.

    To make it more clear I am not looking for someone who will give me some basics to study, and tell what to do, I am looking for someone with whom I will be a partner in trading I will follow his advices every day what to buy and sell in real time, I want to be guided by the mentor, and fallow his trades. The contact can be made by any internet messenger program.

    To make it all legit and clear we will make a deal through a prop company and the payout to the mentor will go at the end of each month. Or the mentor will have another idea, I open for any ideas. Please send me only serious proposal with trading statement if possible to

  1002. 1002 young

    hi guys!!

    am looking for a forex prop firm in Norway, i am moving out there with my wife, any ideas ??


  1003. 1003 jay

    Hello Everybody,
    This email is directed to anyone who can give me an indication on how the remote trading is set up between a prop company and myself.
    I am a day trader with a professionally documented track record of the last 7 months. All trades are undertaken in my CFD account where I have produced a average return of 7.5% gain/profit per month on my capital. I use a very discipline trading strategy and money management rules, where the maiximum risk is 2% of my capital on any given trade. Stop losses and limits are imperative to my trading style. I am located in Australia and I would prefer to trade for a prop company remotly. Has anybody have any experience in a remote trading and how to go about finding a postion with a prop company? And if anyone has any suggestions which could help that would be greatly appreciated.
    Kind Regards jay
    my email

  1004. 1004 John Davalos

    Just thought i’d post this for NYC traders that wish to check out Broad St.

    Have a happy New Year !


    Broad Street Securities Group, a registered CBSX Broker Dealer, is proud to invite you to attend a Free Trading Seminar and open house, showcasing our brand new state of the art trading facility.


    Please join professional trader Michael Di Gioia as he explains the art of scalping using NYSE parity. This precise style of high speed trading allows our traders to capture small movements of a stock, flipping shares against the Bid/Offer while collecting rebates.
    Along with Mr. Di Gioia, we will have on hand one of our NYSE floor brokers to answer many of your questions on how this style works from an execution standpoint.

    DATE and TIME

    Join us Thursday evening, January 6th, 2011 and enjoy soft drinks and snacks from 5:30-7pm. Seminar begins promptly at 6pm.

    50 Broad Street - 16th floor
    New York, New York 10004.

    If you have questions, please feel free to call us at 877-484-6614. We have limited space available. Please RSVP to

  1005. 1005 des byrne

    dear sir/madam
    are any f the prop houses in ireland?


  1006. 1006 HedgeGuy

    Hi out there in trader land.

    I just moved to south Florida and have been an active trader for the past 40 years.

    Am NOT looking to join a firm but am looking to find other traders in stocks and/or futures to get together and start our own group.. It could start as just a late lunch/early dinner among friends and then grow to become our own trading room.

    What do you think?

  1007. 1007 Alexander

    HedgeGuy, we’ve already talked through emails.. I’m interested.. best Alexander

  1008. 1008 Mark

    We trade with other traders every day using our Facebook chat box. Glad to help.

  1009. 1009 Phil McCrackin

    I have been reading this bolg for a year now, lot of good chatter about the industry. If you guys want to check out and actionalble trade source I follow “Fandango36″ on twitter. The guy has very interesting technical set-ups. Sounds like he is an x-hedge fund trader or prop trader off on his own. Regardless his last 6 calls have all been lights out in PCX, AONE, MELI, COCO, SNDK, and SIRI.

    Sometimes you play follow the leader with stops and you make money. Working for now!

  1010. 1010 Johny

    To Hedgeguy
    I am in Boca and if you have a website or a facebook let me know to join or talk what would you like to initiate. I got a load of classes but I might squezze some time to join in the blog or page. Thanks…
    my email is

  1011. 1011 HedgeGuy


    Please send me your email

  1012. 1012 robert

    hey mark, i was interested in learnign trading strategies through your facebook chat box. i would like to join if possible. thanks

  1013. 1013 Jim

    Hello all. My company is a proprietary trading firm based out of Orlando, Florida. We offer in-house trading in our Orlando and Deland locations, as well as remote trading from the comfort of your home. In addition, we provide ongoing real time trading assistance and mentoring via our professional traders.

    If anyone wants further information, please email me:

  1014. 1014 Roshan


    I am based out of India. Can you pls le me know which are the trading firms operating out of India or if I can do remote trading through India for trading companies located outside India.

  1015. 1015 Ankit Doshi

    I wanted to know, out of all the prop. companies mentioned in here how many are operational in india, 2011.
    Thanking you,
    Ankit Doshi

  1016. 1016 Paul

    Hello guys, i’m looking to form a USA Equities(Stocks) day traders group email me if you are interested.

    Please no panny stocks, and you most have expereince day trading.

    Let me know

  1017. 1017 Phil McCrackin

    start following “fandango36″ on twitter. this guy only posts 2-3 trades per week, but they are extremely well thought out and hunted set ups. he absolutely nailed JOYG and SIMO long the last few trading days. think he is a hedge fund guy just sending some of his flow around to help the day trading community that pays attention.

  1018. 1018 rob

    Phil McCrackin, are you “fandango36″ on twitter? Stop pimping your lame ass tweets.

  1019. 1019 jon

    From what I understand km capital management also deals with remote traders out side of US for prop.

  1020. 1020 Uncle

    Do not trade with Keystone Trading Concepts. Very bad experience. The training was horrendous. A very uncomfortable and unfriendly work environment.

  1021. 1021 DePaul Dude

    Off topic trading-related question here… Does know of any movies on trading? I’m not looking for education videos but rather inspirational trading videos, documentaries, trader biographies, etc. This is purely for my own inspirational motivation to make the career jump into the trading world.

    Any suggestions would be much appreciated, thank you!

    DePaul Dude

  1022. 1022 Alexander

    DePaul Dude, one of the best ones are: Wall Street(1987), Trading Places with Eddie Murphy..

  1023. 1023 Dipak

    Dude DePaul…read MARKET WIZARDS…Interview with Top Traders. This book is enough to send your blood boiling! If it doesn’t look for another profession.

  1024. 1024 DePaul Dude

    @Alexander: Thanks for the Trading Places recommendation. I just finished watching it and enjoyed it.

    @Dipak: I agree!

  1025. 1025 aady

    hello guys….
    good to see traders accross world meeting here at one place…

    1. First and foremost it is really sad to hear and see wht happened in Japan.God plz help them….
    2. Crudeoil, Silver on a fukroll baby…..

    Anyways wanna know that anyone have idea which global Prop. firm from the list above have presence in India…
    Would be glad and happy to leran…

    thanks alot……

  1026. 1026 Amanda


    I have been with Coastal Trade Securities, LLC for over 2 years now and they are a great firm with a great setup for established and/or disciplined traders– various platforms and low fees, especially for option traders. Every time I look around for a better deal, I haven’t been able to find one but will always try bc it’s good to be prudent. T3 Live is now a Broker-dealer - great online chat rooms and overall market sentiment and understanding but fees are still too high. Anyway, hope this helps and Good trading. Love this blog! Feel free to post others that are good to check in with as well. Cheers!

  1027. 1027 Gill

    Hi all…
    I’ve been working at SFG for a while now and we are one of the only prop firms that offers quant research and automated trading at little or no fee for those that trade with us. Do you have a strategy you deem profitable? This is your chance to black box it.
    We are a serious company.
    If you are looking to trade remote (or in-house depending on location), work as an associate or even open a trading floor with a serious company, feel free to shoot me an email at
    I will answer any question you might have. Thanks!

  1028. 1028 Matthew

    I’m Moving to the Miami area at the end of the month and looking to link up with people who trade. I’ve been living in Boston and have traded on my own, but I have been mulling over trading with others in Miami. I’m not looking to trade with a prop firm right now, but just alongside other traders each day. Anybody interested in joining me each day send me an email:

  1029. 1029 Naresh Kumar

    Could you kindly add Aurelia Traders from Singapore
    Thank you.

  1030. 1030 Mike Pearson

    Are any of you familiar with prop trading firms in any part of the world that are interested in or considering gaining access to trading the BM&FBovespa in Brazil? I’m guessing that it is rather uncommon for prop firms ourside of Latin America to trade this exchange, but it seems like interest is growing significantly. There are major arbitrage opportunities between Brazilan and US commodity futures markets.

    Please contact me ff any of you are interested or know anyone that is interested in gaining access to Brazil, but you don’t know where to begin. I am an American, but I have spent significant time in Sao Paulo and I am very familiar with many brokerage firms there who could assist you in gaining DMA access to the BM&FBovespa. Thank you.

    Mike Pearson

  1031. 1031 Deryl

    If something is most important in trading career it is a solid good training and mentorship program indeed! I am saying it because few months ago I stacked in the place where I needed to find a course, training that will help me being consistent in my trading. And just want to share with you guys quickly with my training experience, because I found it and it pays me up every day in my trading. Not want to make any ad here so if you are interested in solid training made by professionals that gives consistency in trading just drop me an email and I will share wit you my experience

  1032. 1032 Angelo

    Hello Traders,
    If anyone is looking for a prop firm with great intraday leverage and the best rates on the street please send me an email. We offer a domestic and international side to help every type of trader.

  1033. 1033 bkpasala

    Great effort ……….very much appreciated.

  1034. 1034 Chan

    Hi anyone with experience could take a look a what is offering for proprietary trading they state that Series 7 is not needed and give me an opinion

  1035. 1035 Jason

    What are deep liquidity providers and dark pools? Why are these important to have in a prop firm?


  1036. 1036 Fernando

    Hey Amanda, you moved to T3 Live?

    I was with Star Alliance for some time, and in the new year i decided to move to a new firm, so i came to T3 Live.

    When i got there, one of the guys had a sub llc, and he gave me a better deal then T3 Live actual. At first i was skeptical about this deal and such, because i never heard of the firm.
    I was familiar with sub llc, because that is what Star Alliance was towards Dimension.
    So i gave it a try, and since feb. i have no complaints with this guy firm.

    The only drawback, is that it’s only for remote trading….cause if you want a desk, then you will have to go with T3 Live direct, and not deal with this guy firm.
    But it’s been good, as i am an experience trader, and don’t need any training. I was just looking for a better deal, and better platform.

    If you need to learn, my old firm Star Alliance is good in teaching traders, as well as T3 Live. But once you become an experience trader, you look for better platform, and better deals.

    I also have to say that the T3 Day daily recap, and morning call is very good. Scott Redler is a a good trader, and would not hurt to hear what he has to say. But then again, most of the stuff he says is stuff i know. His market view is base on technical analysis, and that is what firms like Star Alliance and T3 Live teach you, which is what works. Another similar to T3 virtual floor, is scottrends. Scottrends also have some good traders and a virtual floor just like T3 Live. Very helpful for new traders these virtual floors IMO.

    Good luck in your trading.


  1037. 1037 Fernando

    Forgot to add, that i also been doing Options for some time and for the past couple of years i been using thinkorswim….and it’s ok. They have a lot of support, and i like the platform.

    But as far as rate, i found out that options house is top dog! Their rate is really good for traders that trade big contracts.

    And even their rate for stocks seems better then most retail firms. Not bad place to have an account for your swing trading IMO.

  1038. 1038 Nikita

    hi all,
    I m from India. I want to know if any MNCs operating in Mumbai for Prop. trading jobs mainly in International Financial markets.
    Thanks in advance guys.
    Happy tarding all…


  1039. 1039 Robinson


    I wanted to know does anyone know of ANY good prop-firms that trade Futures. It must be in the U.S.

  1040. 1040 Anthony

    Does anyone know anything about Advanced Capital Group? They are supposed to be based out of the Miami area with offices in CA, and NYC and NJ as well. I met with the supposed head guy. Guy seemed a little shaky to me. Never a local number in the office, always a cell #. The founder under Advanced Futures claims to have been around since 2002. Never saw any blogs or anything under Advanced Capital Group Any help greatly appreciated.

  1041. 1041 Kpatel

    Does anyone trade with LES Trading Group? I met with them this week and they seem like a reputable group and offered very attractive rates.I am interested to know if there are any other fees I should look for and does anyone have experience with them good or bad?

  1042. 1042 Not a Fool

    Kpatel looks like you are a shiller you habe posted the same question in elite trader, how much your boss pays you to talk about les? les is a new underfunded firm that hire spammers like you to spread their name around, i would say a BIG NO to LES

  1043. 1043 Gary

    i m getting ready to start a trading career, i d like to get your opinion on two money management books for traders.which one do you guys think is more helpful

    1/ Money Management Strategies for Futures Traders by Nauzer J. Balsara

    2/ A Trader’s Money Management System: How to Ensure Profit and Avoid the Risk of Ruin by Bennett A. McDowell and Steve Nison

  1044. 1044 HedgeGuy

    Hi again,
    Just re-located to Bellingham WA for the summer months from Boca Raton FL.
    Does anyone out there trade from this region?
    Looking to get together with other daytraders.
    Also looking for a prop futures firm out here, could be ‘across the line” in Vancouver BC
    For my background see:

  1045. 1045 Fernando

    Sorry HedgeGuy would not know where to help you.

    I have been doing Remote trading since the new year, and it does get boring being by yourself.
    It is why i decided to join a place like Scottrends. They have other traders that know their stuff. And it’s cool with me.

    Plus i also still get post from people asking for advice on this and that.
    So i want to say if you need help trading then places like Star Alliance, and T3LIVE in NYC are there to help you learn how to trade.

    If you want to trade remote, and need a Virtual trade floor, so you can follow people and listens to others people idea, then T3LIVE and Scottrend are really good.

    I am a personally subscriber of Scottrend, so if you come there shout out my name and i will see if i can help you!
    Plus not to mention that they give you 2 free weeks trial!

    Anything else hit me up at my e-mail:

  1046. 1046 Angelo

    I support a trading group out of India. Please email me if you would like more info.

  1047. 1047 Bullion Master

    Next month i am shifting to Dubai. Can anyone please share their experience or have heard about Dubai Professional Trading Gorup well known as (DPTG).
    Have heard a lot about their training program though.

    I wish to join them from next month. So any experienced shared here will be appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.

    keep rocking Bullionss


  1048. 1048 Victor

    Although the list appears to be comprehensive in nature it is quite dated. Is there a chance that somebody took time to update it — I am sure the landscaped changed a bit since 2007.


  1049. 1049 TheoRiginal

    Im from Toronto, Ontario. I am looking for my best option as far as trading with a prop firm. I do not want to trade remotely. I have only found two firms here, Everest Capital and Infinium Group. Does anyone know of anymore here?, there has to be more than 2. I am trying to make an informed decision.

  1050. 1050 Muhsin Ali

    I can deliver leased instruments to Organisations or individuals with their
    preferred text verbiage as been approved by their bankers. We also proffer sales
    option to interested buyers. Our terms and procedures are so flexible and
    workable by RWA clients. Our lease rate is (5.5 0.5)% x%. X% IS Lessee broker’s
    Commission and he determines his commission. Also we have facilities to discount
    BG and Put you into PPP Trading.

    Contact me through this email:( or through
    skype: (muhsin.abid.ali) in other to furnish you with other information.

  1051. 1051 BR

    I’m a trader looking for a programmer to program my strategies and create a automatic trading system as a joint venture. contact

  1052. 1052 HedgeGuy


    As to finding a programmer to help you write some software, I would be very careful.

    15 or so years ago, I went that route and today some of my stuff is being sold on the web for a few thousand dollars per pop.

    Find someone who has been vetted by others. Sorry to say but some of the old soviet bloc is not very trustworthy.

  1053. 1053 BR

    Hedge Guy,

    I’m in Toronto, Canada area and looking for someone local. I should indicated my location on the first post. I appreciate your response as it is a concern who I join up with and will legally cover myself as much as possible.


  1054. 1054 JacktheTrader

    Hypothetical Scenario (Be Thankful You Aren’t Me):

    You’re a self educated, late twenty something ‘kid’ with no money (not even enough to open up an account as a retail investor), but you can do speculative derivatives structuring just like you were ringin’ a bell - futures and futures-options for the time being. You have a literal portfolio full of viable systematic strategies, some containing up to 20 legs (i.e., single modules that can be replicated ad infinitum without worrying about premature closeouts) that you’ve developed on your own time through mental imagery (as opposed to utilizing complex formulae), although you know little to nothing of data entry techniques.

    Also, your name is possibly floating around on a blacklist of some sort by now, considering that you’ve bugged a lot of people in trying to gain a toehold when you lack cash and credentials, and you find yourself occasionally branded a lunatic before you can whip out your portfolio of blueprints, and are therefore fearful of being burned at the stake as a heretic by those types of people, and rightly so: they set the world back a few steps in every single generation.

    Now, how do you get yourself through the door and into a traditional (and legit) prop trading firm that provides capital and guidance/sponsorship to its traders?

    This would be one of the few places on the net where likeminded analytical thinkers would tend to pass by, sooner or later, so I think I can safely post my troubles here, rather than on the Elite Trader forums. I don’t want to be connected (covering one’s butt in public is always a good idea), and no, JacktheTrader isn’t my username over there. Any input from MY people (those walking the walk) would be excellent, and it would be appreciated like you couldn’t possibly know, if you haven’t been in my pair of shoes before.


  1055. 1055 BR


    Contact info?

  1056. 1056 Ilone

    Hi Guys,
    Phew… good few hours before coming down to this end of the page. Thanks guys for putting such a great info here. Like everybody else i have a question…is there an prop trading firm in Hong Kong (Not elements trading or Epiphany)…one who actually has an office here in HK?
    YOur help will be greatly appreciated

  1057. 1057 Mariam

    I am looking for a list of hedge funds in Stamford, CT. Is there anyone who can help me? Thanks

  1058. 1058 Bee

    Hi BabaK,I am looking for a prop. firm to open remote account. I started to trade stocks from 2005 in Exchange Square ,Hong kong with our boss’ capital. There are over 50 guys in the same office. From 2010,we started to trade from home. Two weeks ago we are informed that the company will be shut down this month.

    There are 33 people here now,all of us are finding a new company to join . I use Sterling before . Some of us use Laser. we were getting 90% payout and 0.0001 commission before since we trade big vol. from 2009 to 2010. Being top day traders,some guys got 95% payout.

    Babak,do you know any prop. firm can provide the same payout and platform?we will be unemployed next month. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

    Bee (

  1059. 1059 Ilone

    Hi Bee,
    Just tried to send you an email but it could not be delivered. Wondering if you found some firms in HK for prop trading. I am in HK too and would love to know more about your trading group if thats ok please?
    my email is

  1060. 1060 Bee

    Hi Ilone,

    I am still looking for the prop. firm to join.Let me know if we can get a chance to meet in HK.

  1061. 1061 Shawn


    what’s your experience with Everest Capital?

    btw in Toronto there’s LOTS of firms, to name a couple more there’s SwiftTrade and Lakestreet trading

  1062. 1062 bobbyo

    I would look at Remote Day Trader RDT

  1063. 1063 Feng

    Hey. I am looking to join a prop firm. My track record is 10% first year 20% second year trading intraday ES. I am not sure if that is “good enough” in the industry but I am looking for a firm that basically allows me to trade the ES intraday as it’s the only thing I know how to trade at the moment. Also little or no deposit required would be required since I have very little capital to put down.

    ANY help would be welcome as I am very new to this prop firm arena.


  1064. 1064 Phil McCrackin

    dont use Dimensional Trading, they stole my money….not for long, courts have been notified. they will pay back sooon.

  1065. 1065 beamerUSA

    There are firms other than daytrading firms who let you trade @ES for $500 a piece.
    If you know to trade you can make money over there.

  1066. 1066 Tim Kingman

    I didn’t see Maverick listed……

  1067. 1067 Brian

    I am looking for a place in Miami where I can trade Futures and FX. Does anyone have a suggestion?

  1068. 1068 HedgeGuy

    Brian and all the other South Florida traders.

    Sorry for the lack of response from me in a while. We are spending the summer in the Pacific Northwest and I havn’t been that free for quite some time.

    I am a trader of long expereinec. You can see my background

    I and a former CBOT commodities principal have been looking to start a daytrading firm or affiliate in the South Florida area for about a year. Palm Beach, Broward, and or Miami.

    We are really trying to start a co-op sort of venture. Everyone would contribute their own trading capital and we could share an office and platform. None of us would profit from the order flow, but would comtribute startegies and the like. The goal is PROFITS and not trading volume. We could make a good deal with Goldman or someone of that caliber.

    I will be back in the Boca Raton area in early October.

  1069. 1069 John

    HedgeGuy, what setting up a prop trading firm has to do with Goldman Sachs?

  1070. 1070 HedgeGuy


    Sorry that you don’t think that clearing is important. Goldman bought Spear Leeds and Kellogg some years back for a few reasons. Primarily for their specialist book but also for their clearing operation which includes ‘Redi”, an excellent platform. Plus, they have deeper pockets than most of the others. Despite what you may think of them, they are still one of the blue chips out there. They are very particular on who they clear for.

  1071. 1071 John

    what’s wrong with Wedbush?

  1072. 1072 Adam

    HI everyone, I’m looking for Forex prop firm that let traders trade its own capital, does anyone know of any good one?

  1073. 1073 nyse day trader

    i leave in toronto and can anyone suggest me a day trading firm? Or can anyone the list the top 5 day trading firms in toronto?

  1074. 1074 Jim Regenzi

    In Toronto you got Vortex Capital Group (

    They specialize in US equities and futures. You need to be an experienced/profitable trader for them to consider you though.

  1075. 1075 nyse day trader

    thanx, i’ll go and check it out

  1076. 1076 nyse day trader

    Sterling , laser or lightspeed is the best for daytraders???

  1077. 1077 Jim Regenzi

    sterling is definitely the industry standard.

  1078. 1078 Leonardos

    Hello everyone,

    I have been trading forex since 2008,my own account.I know very well technical analysis.
    I am looking for a trader’s position preferably in the UK.Can somebody help me?I dont need work permits,visas,sponsors,etc,because I have a European Union passport.
    Thank you.

  1079. 1079 nihao

    does anyone know whats the software fee for sterling and vortex? thanks

  1080. 1080 Jim Regenzi

    Vortex Capital Group offers the software for $200/month

  1081. 1081 nihao

    thanks jim. do you currently trading with vortex?

  1082. 1082 kevin doyle

    Do anyone has trade with Broad street trading or has any experience with them? it would be very helpful i have some doubts… thanks!

  1083. 1083 mike

    Does anyone trade with Topstep trader

  1084. 1084 Walter

    Does anyone know what happened to Babak? He hasn’t posted anything in almost three months on his Trader’s Narrative blog.

  1085. 1085 nicky