Trader’s Narrative

263 Responses to “List of Proprietary Trading Firms”  

1. 1 Jamie Apr 4th, 2007 at 8:56 pm

   Thanks for putting such a comprehensive list together. What is series 7 btw?

2. 2 Babak Apr 4th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

   It’s a US thing, sort of like our CSC but a bit tougher. You need to have it before you can trade prop - or atleast be sponsored by the firm to write the series 7 license exam

3. 3 Jim Apr 4th, 2007 at 10:56 pm

   Check link for Wolverine trading. Should be www.wolve.com.

4. 4 Babak Apr 5th, 2007 at 12:11 am

   Thanks Jim - fixed.

5. 5 Tyro Apr 5th, 2007 at 8:56 am

   Canadian firms don’t require Canadian traders to have their Series 7. US firms do require Canadian traders have their Series 7. So when I (a Canadian) traded with Bright (American, but with Canadian offices), I had to get my Series 7. When I traded with Questrade and Swift, they didn’t care.

6. 6 Rahul Apr 5th, 2007 at 10:50 pm

   Thanks for the list Babak. I have been looking for one but kept getting unsatisfactory results. This was quite welcome.

   Thanks,
   Rahul
   http://www.tradernirvana.com

7. 7 Babak Apr 7th, 2007 at 12:45 am

   you’re welcome Rahul, thanks for stopping by

8. 8 Dirk Apr 9th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

   A Series 7 is not needed in Canada? That’s cool! How can I get in? Would I have to become a Canadian citizen? How easy/hard is that?

9. 9 John Croford Apr 11th, 2007 at 2:41 pm

   Finding an equity trading that fits you is hard. But if you are looking for the training, Nexis Capital is by far the best on the street. A few groups on the above list are actually subcompanies of Nexis. They own their trading platform and the broker dealer so their rates are the most competitive. If you are new Nexis is the way to go!

10. 10 Caravaggio Apr 15th, 2007 at 2:08 pm

    Good list Babak. Some of these firms have UK offices, so it’s something for me to look in to. There is also MAKO trading (www.makoglobal.com) …they are primarily derivatives traders but look like a solid, reputable outfit. I summarised what they are looking for on my blog:

    http://the3500.wordpress.com/2007/04/13/what-a-proprietary-trading-firm-looks-for/

11. 11 John Hall Apr 16th, 2007 at 1:40 am

    I think this is really interesting and I plan on using it in future job hunts.

    I’m wondering if there is something particular that can make you stand out in a sea of applicants. I don’t have a Series 7 yet and my firm isn’t part of the NASD so they obviously can’t sponsor me. Is it easy to get one of these firms to sponsor you?

12. 12 John Apr 16th, 2007 at 8:26 pm

    I was wondering if anyone knows which trading floor is shown in the picture! It looks like an amazing place to work!

13. 13 Babak Apr 16th, 2007 at 8:33 pm

    John,
    it’s my home office.

14. 14 John Apr 16th, 2007 at 10:34 pm

    I was wondering if anyone knows the average performance of first year proprietary traders in these trading firms. I hear Nexis Capital has a low turnover rate and was wondering how much the traders are making on average. (or range) Are there any websites with these statistics? Thanks.

15. 15 Babak Apr 17th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    John,
    it is such a secretive and fragmented mkt that it is simply impossible to get such data. The best you can do is ask around and read objective reviews from people who have “been there and done that”.

16. 16 Gil Apr 22nd, 2007 at 12:47 am

    Nexis (and associated subs working on same trading floor, StarAlliance & Semper Fi) uses Blackwood. It is not their own. Nothing special about them either.

17. 17 Ian Apr 22nd, 2007 at 5:09 am

    Please Help …

    I am debating whether or not to accept a job offer from Nexis Capital. If anyone has any information on Nexis Capital or just in general about the roles of an equity trader, it would be much appreciated.

    Thanks

18. 18 Babak Apr 22nd, 2007 at 8:16 pm

    Ian,
    I would suggest you go to elitetrader.com, write up your offer and request feedback.

19. 19 Ike Apr 26th, 2007 at 1:16 am

    I also got a job offer from nexis as an equity trader and I’m confused as to what exactly I’m getting into …am I basically being let on my own and working under a commission..? Please give me any further info if you can..
    Thanks

20. 20 John Apr 26th, 2007 at 7:16 am

    Hey Ike and Ian. Looks like we are all in the same boat. Are you guys in the class starting in Aug? Maybe we are future coworkers lol but yea if anyone knows anything about Nexis and its culture please let us know!

21. 21 Jerry Apr 26th, 2007 at 5:03 pm

    I’ve been looking up this Nexis Capital and have seen their postings on career websites. To those who had an interview with them and/or got offers, can you give any specifics? What’s your outlook on them? Legit?

22. 22 Babak Apr 26th, 2007 at 5:49 pm

    Guys,
    I’ve posted a thread on ET. Hopefully, somone with info on Nexis will chip in.

23. 23 John S. Apr 27th, 2007 at 6:04 pm

    Im not in Nexis, but I trade on the same floor as them. They work under Dimension Brokerage. I *think* Nexis use to be called Prestige Capital.

    I remember that back in January, they had a sudden infux of new traders. Now, it looks like they only have half the traders that they did at their peak in January. Someone (also not in Nexis) told me that a few of Nexis’s sub-LCC’s left for another company. I’m not sure if that’s true or not because it looked to me as if the traders left gradually.

    John Croford:
    Are you saying that Nexis owns blackwood pro, and dimension? I generally dont like getting in the affairs of others but i’m rather curious about this.

    Ike:
    Ian:
    John:
    Can I ask about you rates, capital contribution, payout, etc?

    j_s_summers@yahoo.com

24. 24 Ian Apr 27th, 2007 at 9:27 pm

    I accepted the offer from Nexis Capital. The capital provided by them is 50K and I decided to contribute 10% of that as my initial contribution. I believe this means my returns on trades will be 70%. This will still make it very difficult for those first three months when you generate no income.

    However I have requested the recruiter to send me the contract for this position and he refuses due to “confidentiality”reasons. I know other companies make sure that new employees are clear on all litigations of the position and the contract is one of the first things they mail out.

    What do you guys feel about this, I really want to review the contract before starting. How should I go about this.

    Thanks.

25. 25 John Hall Apr 27th, 2007 at 9:58 pm

    I can understand why he wouldn’t want you to share the contract with anyone else (except a lawyer), but I wouldn’t agree to using someone else’s capital without a clear understanding of the risks and potential liabilities. Even if he only lets you look at it at their headquarters (very much a scare tactic), I would spend a great deal of time looking it over and making sure you understand it.

26. 26 Babak Apr 28th, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    Ian,
    personally, I wouldn’t get into anything unless I knew what it was beforehand. If they are citing confidentiality then tell them that you’re willing to sign a non-disclosure agreement to be ablel to read the contract. I can’t see them refusing that in good conscience.

    best of luck and let us know how it works out

27. 27 Weston May 15th, 2007 at 12:15 am

    Has anyone ever heard of or worked for Title Trading? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated

28. 28 robbie May 17th, 2007 at 7:58 pm

    I am looking for a good spot to trade that doesnt require a series 7. Any thoughts on some places I should look into?

29. 29 Keith May 18th, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    I also got an offer from Nexis to start in August. I’ve been debating it. A 60% payout seems pretty decent, but I’m skeptical since I didn’t receive a contract or very much info on the company and the position.

30. 30 trade2learn May 22nd, 2007 at 6:55 am

    Nexis is just like any prop firm. If you can trade, great. If not, you would feel like crap after couple of months.

    Their checks come in on time- if you manage to make money that is.

    From my experience there, the success rate is about 5-10%. There’s about 2-3 good traders born out of a class of 20-25.

31. 31 Will May 27th, 2007 at 12:29 am

    Thanks for the wonderful list!

32. 32 pame May 28th, 2007 at 8:04 pm

    Hi, I need to know more about Cornerstone Partners. Who is the Partner in this company and is the properitory company anyway related to Cornerstone Trading LLC ! Appreciate reply if anyone knows !

33. 33 Charlie Jun 1st, 2007 at 1:50 am

    what is the firm that’s in the picture?

34. 34 Ian Jun 1st, 2007 at 3:24 am

    Has anyone taken the series 7 exam or know someone who has taken it, if so can you give me some insight as to best ways to prepare.

    Thanks

35. 35 Babak Jun 1st, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    Charlie,
    I have no idea but it looks like a fun place to work, doesn’t it?
    you wouldn’t believe the number of people who have contacted me asking the same question.

36. 36 John Croford Jun 5th, 2007 at 7:23 pm

    Haven’t checked the post in awhile and it seems like the Nexis comment was misunderstood. i have been to a number of different trading firms like nexis and their deal structure, training, support, technology, and management far exceeds the former firms i worked for. i refuse to mention the names of my former firms, but i will tell you that many companies give you no training and fuck you on the deals. the market is really tough right now and has been for about 8 months. Nexis gave me an opportunity because I showed ambition and passion for the markets and it has worked out well. Their payouts may be less than other companies, but the fees and costs to trade are also lower. One former company gave me a much higher payout, like 95%, but charged me a seat fee, and technology fee, and pass through fees, and SEC fees, and ticket costs. It was a crock of shit. Even when I made money gross, i never brought anything home because it was all goign back to the firm. At Nexis they focus on training you and making money with you. Their management is very open about everything and they do not lie about what to expect. Most traders don’t make any money when they start and it is competitive. the bottom line is that you have to be good in this business or you are done.

37. 37 Lyn Jun 6th, 2007 at 12:48 pm

    Hi, thanks a lot for the comprehensive list.

    I am very interested in remote trading and wonder whether it is possible to have more information in this area. So far Bright Trading is the only place I can find which offers such remote trading. Are there other options? I wish to trade index futures, and Bright Trading seems to do stocks only.

    And, can anyone please share their experiences with Bright Trading? Your comment will be very much appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance.

38. 38 John Hall Jun 6th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    How much of these Proprietary Trading Firms focus on day trading?

39. 39 Babak Jun 6th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    John, thanks for the feedback.

    Lyn, almost all of the firms now offer remote. That I know only a handful specialize in futures but their names escape me now. I’d go to elitetrader and do a search since this has been asked and answered many times.

    John, by their nature, all prop firms are day trading.

40. 40 Chester Jun 8th, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    When a firm says that after so many months you will receive a draw for perhaps $2000 a months from your account, what exactly is that implying? Basically I’m wondering if you have your account at perhaps $100,000 and in one month you increase it to $105,000. If you have a 100% payout ratio (for math’s sake) and you’re entitled to receiving $7000, does the account move down to $93,000? I’m just trying to familiarize myself with the idea of a draw and its drawbacks(pun intended).

41. 41 Babak Jun 9th, 2007 at 9:53 pm

    I’m not sure because I don’t know the contractual context. In a normal prop shop, you put some money down and you trade. Usually you can take money out, as long as you have made it. Or if you want to leave the firm (taking the deposit). If you have questions, the best source would be the prop firm you’re dealing with.

42. 42 Cory H Jun 18th, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    Those that are interested in remote trading and don’t actually have the experience and want to also learn some stratagies, I found a great company called NRT that gives you online training and allows you to trade from home. I think the company is a subsidiary of Nexis, the website is www.nexisremote.com.

43. 43 Chester Jun 20th, 2007 at 10:12 am

    Do you trade for them now?

44. 44 Lyn Jun 20th, 2007 at 12:11 pm

    Can anyone please tell me the prop firms that trade futures? I am trying to find such info at ET, and so far have found very little. Thanks a lot.

45. 45 Dan Jun 21st, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    Does anyone know of any Washington DC based prop firms?

46. 46 goindo Jun 27th, 2007 at 9:17 am

    To: Ian, Ike & John

    CC: Babak

    Regarding Nexis Capital…

    Hi there; I will be interviewing with Nexis Capital next week, and since you guys (Ian, Ike, John) have already gotten a job offer from them, I’d like to ask you guys (if you don’t mind) about the interview. i.e. what should I expect, what do they look for in me, etc. Or even what questions should I be asking them.

    Of course, my question goes to Babak as well. And.. actually, just about anyone who reads this, please help me out. Thanks!

    P.S. About me: a recent college grad.

47. 47 Keith Jun 27th, 2007 at 6:09 pm

    Goindo,

    I have also accepted an offer from Nexis. Honestly just show that you have a general interest in trading and are fairly decent with numbers. I just graduated college in May and had my interview in January. I didn’t really talk as much about previous work experience as much as I talked about what I knew about the financial market and why that type of job interested me. I don’t know how many people they’ve already hired or how many more they’re hiring, but showing that you really want it is my best advice.

    I’m actually curious who of you guys out there are definetly starting August 6th?

48. 48 Ian Jun 27th, 2007 at 7:00 pm

    Goindo,

    My interview was rather casual, my interviewer was there in a polo, jeans and baseball cap. During the interview he asked me questions which mainly showed my style of thinking and processing data. He also asked me a brain teaser and wanted me to walk him through the solution out loud. One advice is to display an entreprenurial spirit, as that is what this position demands.

    Not to deter anyone from the company, but the risks of the positions were just too great for me and I withdrew my acceptance to join Nexis in August.

    Best of luck.

    Ian

49. 49 Dean Jun 29th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Just to clear up a few things about Nexis Capital, as many of the posts here are misleading (I work in the same office as they do).

    A) They do NOT own their own software
    B) They are NOT a broker-dealer
    C) They ARE a sub-LLC group of Dimension Capital
    D) They ARE in the process of leaving Dimension Capital
    E) Half of their traders have left in the past few months

    There is truly nothing special or ground-breaking about their strategy/training (actually, the reason that so many of their traders have left is because of NSYE Hybrid, a new rule that has made many traders leave the business in recent month’s altogether). To their credit, they just do a better job of marketing themselves than other people.

    To the unitiated poster who foolishly stated that he/she will receive $50,000 in capital and $5k of that will be contributed by the trader, lol, don’t think they are giving you a special deal because of your intellect: IT IS STANDARD PROCEDURE IN THE PROP WORLD. And by the way, they are not “putting up” the other $50k: once your $5k is lost/done, you will be asked to re-deposit additional risk capital and/or leave.

    Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions.

    Dean deanfsp@yahoo.com

50. 50 Babak Jun 29th, 2007 at 3:17 pm

    Dean,
    thanks for the info. I was puzzled by all this hand wringing over interviews. Prop firms will take anyone with a pulse (and capital contribution).

51. 51 Dean Jun 29th, 2007 at 4:30 pm

    Babak:

    No problem. All someone really needs in the prop world is someone reputable to deal with and a good system.

52. 52 Keith Jul 1st, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    Any suggestions? And are there any places that might give some sort of a salary?

53. 53 Babak Jul 1st, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    Keith,
    afaik, the only prop shops that give you a salary are large banks and other financial institutions which have trading desks. They offer a salary plus bonuses based on performance. This is the original form of ‘prop’ but today’s prop firms are in essence super-charged brokers.

54. 54 Chester Jul 2nd, 2007 at 9:00 am

    Has anyone heard or worked for First New York Securities LLC? Seems as though you don’t have to put capital down and the traders get a salary.

55. 55 Babak Jul 2nd, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Chester, I think you have to be a firm member to trade the firm’s capital. And you become a member by capital contribution… unless I’m wrong. In any case I’ve added them to the list.

56. 56 Brian Jul 3rd, 2007 at 10:25 am

    I just found this blog.

    I received my offer to trade at Nexis and have decided to do it, I’ll be in the August 6 class and can’t wait to start.

57. 57 David Jul 3rd, 2007 at 5:37 pm

    Does anyone here know how much Nexis charges for commission?

58. 58 Ian Jul 3rd, 2007 at 6:50 pm

    From what I understood, comission is solely based on your initial contribution
    i.e contribute nothing, comission = 50%
    contribute 5K, comission = 60%
    contribute 10K, comission = 70%

    … and so on

    however I could be wrong, if anyone else has more precise answer please correct me.

    cheers,
    Ian

59. 59 Keith Jul 3rd, 2007 at 6:55 pm

    0 is 50%, 2500 is 60%, 5k is 70% and 10k is 80%

60. 60 David Jul 3rd, 2007 at 7:16 pm

    I wasn’t talking about payout rate, I was talking about how much they charge you per share.

    That said, those payout rates dont seem very competetive. Im pretty sure Benchmarq has a 100% payout with 20:1 leverage. ie: you put up 5K they give you 100K buying power, with 100% payout.

    David
    dewar32392@mypacks.net

61. 61 john Jul 4th, 2007 at 3:16 am

    i wont be able to find the proprietary firm name G H Financials, could you pleaze upload the relevant informations regarding the same

62. 62 Dean Jul 4th, 2007 at 12:46 pm

    That is a total rape of a deal: 80% payout with $10k deposited? You are doing yourself a huge disservice in accepting such an uncompetitive deal. I guess Nexis is good at finding fools.

    Do yourself a favor and shop around. You can contact me if you have any questions.

    Dean

    deanfsp@yahoo.com

63. 63 Markus Jul 5th, 2007 at 2:57 am

    There is a better way than joining a prop firm:

    Go out and work for a while in job which interests you, save a grubstake, join one or more good trading rooms (e.g. www.lbr.com) for education. Then trade small size with a well known broker with decent commission and good technology. Trading is about patience and persistency.

64. 64 John Croford Jul 5th, 2007 at 5:38 pm

    There seems to be a lot confusion going back and forth about Nexis Capital. The biggest problem with blogs and message boards is that very little is true. Competitors can easily find these blogs and post non-sense.
    As I mentioned in my last post, I am a trader a Nexis and I know exactly what the real deal is with this company (the good and the bad).

    Clarification:
    Nexis Capital is a strategic partner with the owners of Blackwood Technologies and Dimension Brokerage. In other words, Nexis is the parent trading firm, not a sub-group of Dimension Brokerage. Nexis is severing their relationship with the partners of Dimension and Blackwood for one reason and one reason only: Blackwood Pro Trading Platform. As a trader with Nexis, I have been frustrated with the quality of this platform and I can’t be happier that the partners of Nexis have decided to move on to bigger and better things. The platform is the only one reason why a few traders have left Nexis, but very few have. What Dean doesn’t know is that Nexis has already transitioned some traders over onto the new system in a new location, and it appears as if the trading floor got cut in half when it did not.

    Nexis is one of the only companies that offer positions with $0 down. If you do put down capital and go through the capital, Nexis will cover you 100% behind your capital. Dean is completely wrong about that!
    Babak seems to be running this blog and he wisely stated “All someone really needs in the prop world is someone reputable to deal with and a good system.” The only thing I think he forgot to add is training. Training is possibly the most important factor for success. A lot of firms don’t give a shit about their traders or training them. To make it in this industry you have to have the best training possible and that is what Nexis does best, hands down.

    Dean also mentioned that putting 10k down with an 80% payout is a rapping. Obviously noone read my last posting on June 5th. I was with another firm prior to being with Nexis and they could have given me a 140% payout, but it didn’t mean shit because I couldn’t make money with a company that doesn’t train.

65. 65 Dean Jul 5th, 2007 at 6:05 pm

    John, I know exactly where Nexis is going and the platform might be one of the issues at hand, but so is a lower rate and higher buying power. There are more forces at work here than just the platform.

    You obviously cannot read and comprehend correctly, so let us try to clarify a few things for you in plain English.

    A) “Nexis Capital is a strategic partner with the owners of Blackwood Technologies and Dimension Brokerage. In other words, Nexis is the parent trading firm, not a sub-group of Dimension Brokerage.” ————–> Every group within Dimension is a strategic partner (there are about a dozen of them). Nexis is not the parent trading firm: THEY ARE a sub-group of Dimension. Don’t think so? If Dimension goes down, so does Nexis and every other group that is affiliated with Dimension (Nexis has capital with Dimension. Nexis gets paid from Dimension). So your capital is bye-bye with Nexis if Dimension goes south.

    B) “Nexis is one of the only companies that offer positions with $0 down. If you do put down capital and go through the capital, Nexis will cover you 100% behind your capital.” —————–> Nexis is not the only one that offers this: go to Craigslist and you will see a ton of ads that offer no money down. Why would firms do this kind gesture and take on such financial risk? Because they can charge ridiculous rates (anywhere from 0.007 to 0.015 a share) and reap high-margin profits. The trader is led to believe he/she is getting a great deal, however, with such a high commission rate, 99% will not make a dime and just churn themselves, making the firm a ton of cash.

    C) “Babak seems to be running this blog and he wisely stated “All someone really needs in the prop world is someone reputable to deal with and a good system.” ———–> Check your sources: I was the one that wrote that post.

    Bottom line: what Nexis offers is standard fare in the prop world but people like yourself make it to be the steal of the century, making unsuspecting future traders delicious prey.

    Dean

66. 66 David Jul 5th, 2007 at 6:52 pm

    John Croford:
    Since none of Nexis recruits here seems to know this, how much do you charge per share?

67. 67 Chester Jul 6th, 2007 at 1:04 am

    Any remote prop firms that cater to Canadians, where a trader can start with 0 capital?

68. 68 Mark Jul 7th, 2007 at 12:38 am

    John Croford:
    Since none of Nexis recruits here seems to know this, how much do you charge per share?

69. 69 Keith Jul 9th, 2007 at 6:34 pm

    Any input on SMB Capital?

70. 70 Alfi Jul 10th, 2007 at 3:03 am

    hi guys
    do any of you have experience with prop. trading firms in the San Francisco Bay Area?
    Especially if you know of any that provide classes with proper training for their trainees?

    Thanks

71. 71 G.A. Jul 30th, 2007 at 8:34 pm

    John Croford:

    Im interested in trading with NExis, but currently I am trading with another one of dimensions llc’s. I know that there is a non-compete that prevents me from going to nexis right now, but i was wondering if you know when Nexis will begin hiring at there new offices.

72. 72 Ben Aug 6th, 2007 at 1:23 am

    There’s a lot of fake info about nexxis in this blog. Let me break it down real simple for evryone that is about to fall into this scam:

    Out of 200 traders, there will be about 5 guys that can make decent money. Whatever payout % rate you have because of your contribution makes absolutely no difference at all because you’ll never really get paid…for 95% of the traders, the best scenario is to get draws of 2000 against their accounts…and it is rare that they receive 2000 every month…I would say your lucky if you make $8k the first year. It doesn’t matter if your payout is 80%, or 70% or 50%, because the rates they charge you are so high that you will owe them money even if you made money gross. You can gross 10k per month and they will tell you that you lost them money because of the transaction fees…before you know it you will owe them 40k!! They will not charge you this money if you leave…this is just an excuse so they can take all the money you make and NOT pay you!! You will spend years trying to make back the money before you can get your account back to zero and start making money. Oh, and say goodbye to your capital contribution because you’ll NEVER see it again. I put 2500 down and never saw it again, just like the other 16 guys that put down money when they started with me. Don’t waste your time…if you still want to do this, then start with zero contribution…you’ll have the same payout anyway!!! The last thing is that almost evryone leaves or gets fired.

73. 73 David Legg Aug 8th, 2007 at 8:12 am

    Most of the people that goes to those prop firms are trying to make a quick buck. By Day Trading or short term swing trading. Most of the traders that trade at those firms “aren’t” exactly quailified traders aka they wouldn’t get a job at Morgan Stanley or JP Morgan for Equity Trader position or Analyst.

    If trading at one of these firms, for starting off use strategies such as CAPM, biggest thing is control risk to return. (Play it safe) And if you just trade without a valuation system. Then use strategies such as 2% cut loss with Puts as insurance and so forth.

74. 74 Alfi Aug 9th, 2007 at 2:43 am

    I agree….do NOT put down any capital or initial contribution!!!! because you wont see it again! you cant expect to make any money at the beginning anyway as its normal to lose money in the 1st year or so. and lower payout with no contribution? well i wouldnt worry about it because there wont be any payout anyway if you are losing money. If you join them with no money contribution, all you have to lose is your time which is still better than losing time AND your money. )

75. 75 Ben Aug 9th, 2007 at 11:02 pm

    If you have an education, I would stay away from these day trading firms…truth is, you might learn some exciting things but you will not get any money out of it and you will waste valuable time. If you are trying t be an analyst, or a real trader, this experience will not be very useful at all. As I said before, if you want to give it a try, then start with NO MONEY AT ALL!!! Trust me, I saw many new classes start at nexxisss and 95% of the guys were gone after a while….even the guys that were doing really well at the beginning. After all this time, I am pretty amazed that this business, and/or the things that the owners do are legal at all!! They finance their business by screwing so many people…mostly young guys. Every 3 to 6 months, they will bring a class of 20 - 40 people, and tell them the same fake story so that most of them put down contributions. Just figure it out…say 70% of the guys make a contribution…multiply and you’ll get a decent amount of money that none of the guys will see again!!! And if someone is absolutely excellent, he will get paid with his own money. Why do traders stay more than they should you may ask…well, because promises are made and traders try to forecast the future and don’t really care if they don’t make money at the start because they think they’ll make a lot later. Too bad that everyone realizes a little too late that this is not going to happen. I write all this because it is really unfair and sadistic that these people make all this free money like that…making people put down contributions that they will never give back…Ridiculous!!! If you know people that want to start there, spread the word or at least warn them. Trust me, I saw more than 100 guys get kicked out like dogs with no money…and a lot of them were doing good and making money for the firm!!!! I wasted alot of time and lost 2500…lucky it was only 2500 compared to others…and I was a pretty consistent trader with very little loses…it doesn’t matter if you gross alot in your account, because you will always owe them money…try getting charged $10 per thousand shares when they don’t pay anything…of course, they have to pay the rent, but for that they can use the poor kids’ contributions.

76. 76 Gordon Aug 12th, 2007 at 8:38 pm

    Does anyone know of more firms that are similar to Getco and Allston? In particular, what are more firms that use their own software and act more as market-makers versus prop trading firms?

77. 77 digthis Aug 17th, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    worked @ Nexis for almost a year, and what Dean and Ben say is true….Croford is misleading you and himself if his claims are that what Nexis does is superior to anyone else in the Prop arena….I watched daily as seasoned traders would put up 1000-2000 dollar days, only to realize later that these same people had either a) never seen a single dime due to transaction costs and ludicrous per share fees, or b) had run up such ridiculous debt that would require 3 years of 1-2k days just to get to zero….it’s a zero sum game with these guys and most of the ones out there just like them….the only difference is that the owner is as disgusting and shady as they come, and good at fooling those who come into his office that he’s offering you sunshine in a box for nothing. just take a look at his professional career (failed real estate, failed other businesses, etc.)….

78. 78 Chester Sep 4th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    There hasn’t been any feedback on the new class at Nexis and I know they started already as well as had plans to be merging and moving. Anyone?

79. 79 Alfi Sep 6th, 2007 at 8:03 pm

    yeah it would be interesting to hear about their experiences from the class that started in August.

80. 80 Alfi Sep 18th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    well most of the people in the current class are probably frustruated with trading and losing money and therefore are not willing to share that with us..i guess..:-))

81. 81 trade2learn Sep 25th, 2007 at 11:11 pm

    I worked for Nexis for over a year. I can’t speak for independent traders that use them as a broker but I can speak as one of the “graduate” of their training class.

    I can verify what Ben and Dean said. I saw traders come and go. Even the good one left after a while.

    To be fair to Nexis, if you are a good trader, you can make money- the fee is roughly $7/1000 shares - thats after all the SEC fees. The success rate is about 1-2 out of a class of 20. Even you are a successful trader, chances are the money isn’t as good as you think it is.

    If you have a decent education, go to an i bank and get an internship. Paid or unpaid, its better than a career at daytrading.

82. 82 kw Sep 27th, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    I have not dealt with Nexis so I will not comment on them, but on prop trading in general. I traded prop for a year before leaving to trade futures and I know several people that are quite successful using prop firms. But there are several misunderstandings that many new traders have, especially when they find out about prop trading from a job posting website.

    First of all, the firms that recruit off monster.com or whatever are NOT true prop in the original sense of the word, i.e. Goldman Sachs/Morgan Stanley etc. Those firms, who generally only recruit ivy league blue blood types will pay salary and bonus, and the competition for those “jobs” is extremely intense. The prop firms we are discussing are not jobs at all, because you are not being hired to trade. Rather, you are risking your own money (when you put up captial) or in the case of no contribution the company is only risking the amount of commissions you will generate against any profits you may make up to whatever their internal cutoff point is where they “fire” you. If they offer a “draw”, that is the same as in a sales job where you are receiving money that you have yet to earn. Any profits you make above commissions will be used to pay off the draw before you get any of it.

    Realize that most people will not make any money trading…ever. Those that do, usually have a learning curve that can last more than a year (in my case it was multiple years…yes, I am stubborn). It is almost impossible to make enough as a new trader to cover commissions and fees, no matter what the training program is like. There are no magic bullets, no secret systems…in the end its all about you and how disciplined you are.

    Prop firms make their money off of traders making trades. To them your profitability is secondary because there is always another dreamer waiting for your chair. They clear trades for less than they charge you for them and the difference is where their income is from. If you happen to make a lot of money and they get 10 or 20% of that, then its just gravy for them…that is why so many offer 100% payout, they know that there is likely to be no payout at all.

    Someone asked why there aren’t many futures prop firms. The reason is that the main benefit of prop trading is the large amount of leverage you get for your small deposit. This allows undersapitalized traders the ability to bypass the daytrader rule and start on a shoestring. Futures are already highly leveraged and so there is not the same benefit to sell to traders. If there were a way to make money doing it then you can count on the fact that they would be all over the place. There are a few and they tend to appeal to very large volume traders, but I have no experience with them.

    This turned out to be longer than I intended but I see these questions come up a lot on various forums and I hate to see unsuspecting people get their dreams shattered because they didn’t realize what they were getting into. I don’t mean this as a slap on prop firms, because they can be a useful tool if you are prepared when you start. The leverage is great if you know what you are doing. The problem is that the leverage usually appeals to people with little money and so they have no staying power to survive the learning curve. My recommendation is to not trade prop (or any highly leveraged trading) until you have enough money put aside to live on for at LEAST a year, not including your trading capital. Otherwise there is zero chance of your survivability. My humble recommendation (from experience) is to get a regular job that you can spend a couple years at and save save save until you have the capital to survive the inevitable drought. I know it sucks to hear that but I wish someone had told me that when I started.

    I have respected Babak for a long time from another forum so I thought I would trrow my 2c in here. Hope it helps someone.

    Good trading everyone.

83. 83 Mike Sep 27th, 2007 at 11:09 pm

    Hello Guys:

    I accepted a job offer with Star Alliance Capital, They are working under Dimension Cap, I am Trading there for almost 3 weeks .After two weeks of Extensive training , i started to trade Live and so far the first week , I made only $ 500.00 Net, after comm.

    My mentors making acouple thousand dollars a day, and so far no matter what i do i cant make more than $ 100 to $ 110.00 a day .I have asked them to let me to trade more shares ( currently i have a limit of 300 share 3 positions) but so far they are not allowing me to trade more.

    Just wondering if you guys have any advide for me to help me to make more money with my current position size.

84. 84 Babak Sep 28th, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    Kirk, thanks for that very honest and informative message.

    Mike, be patient. A week is too short. Keep up a consistent performance, then ask for more flexibility and lower commissions.

85. 85 Mike Sep 28th, 2007 at 8:56 pm

    Babak:

    Thank You so much for your advice, You are right,I have to be paitient and take it easy .

    As one of my mentor told me before, lots of people loose their money and therfore dont have chance to be in the market in order to pass the learning curve.

    Babak , Are you a trader?

86. 86 erik Oct 18th, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    Does any of you guys know a good Prop Firm in Toronto? Thanks

87. 87 HP Nov 9th, 2007 at 10:30 am

    I am looking for a prop firm in Washington DC or the surrounding area of Virgina and Maryland. Can someone let me know. Thanks

88. 88 Piers Nov 12th, 2007 at 6:10 pm

    Hi Guys,

    I’m trading out of a prop arcade in London but looking for a move to Asia. Anyone have any names of prop firms out in Singapore or Tokyo? Have a few names to chase and trying to get infro from SGX and TIFFE, but any contacts/names of fimrs out there would be appreciated… Anyone got any info?

    Cheers

89. 89 Brook Taylor Nov 20th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    Has anyone paid for training from Velez Capital and or trade through them? What has been your experience? Did you feel the training is worth the price i.e. 7 grand. Are there firms that don’t charge for training? What other firms give you $50k to start trading? Thank you. Brook

90. 90 kw Nov 21st, 2007 at 10:38 am

    Brook,

    $7k for training? You would be better served applying that money to the market losses you will have in the beginning.

    I am not against educating yourself, but something newbies need to know is that this industry is FULL of scam artists, and the way you know they are trying to cheat you is if their mouth is moving. The truth is that to make money in the market you have to have an edge, that is, a statistically significant positive return that beats random coin flipping. If these “educators” had this then they would be trading not teaching, plain and simple. If they tell you otherwise, like “I do it to give back” or “My method is not diluted by teaching it to others” then just remember, their mouth is moving… Edges are too hard to come by to publish and even if they did, the fact that many others would be using the edge would in itself, kill the edge. And I am being generous in assuming they had an edge to sell to begin with…most of these training courses are absolutely worthless crap from the start.

    You will have to develop your own edge, and there are no shortcuts. You have to master your own psychology (this is the step most people never get through) and spend a lot of time in the market. Those are two things you won’t get from a $7k seminar. All you need is in a few books you can get at the library and yourself.

    As for Velez, a good friend of mine had some proprietary work “taken” from him by these guys and then claimed as their own, so that tells me all I need to know about him. But my warning applies to all vendors. There are very very very very very (did I mention very?) few that are worth even reading the promotional brochure.

    Its a jungle out there, and there are a lot of big cats eyeballing you.

91. 91 David Nov 21st, 2007 at 11:33 am

    Question guys -

    i just interviewed at a prop options trading company. they grilled me with logic questions - and quite frankly - i was lost.

    how much do these questions determine how good you will be in trading?

    david

92. 92 Babak Nov 21st, 2007 at 2:29 pm

    Piers, a lot of European and US prop shops have branches in Asia. Try the larger ones in the listing (above). At the moment I don’t know of a reputable firm in Asia but if I hear anything I’ll let you know.

    Brook, I’d stay away from Velez, prop firm or training. I haven’t heard good things.

    David, there is no definite determinant of trading prowess other than a track record. No question, interview or experiment short of trading itself can show that you can make money. Interviews are a game that you have to play to join the game in prop shops. Some are hard and others easy. If you don’t get into one, try another.

93. 93 David Nov 21st, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    Babak -

    in addition to your reply of trading prowess - if one trips up on logic questions in an interview…such as myself(bummer), do you think this is a good indicator whether one will be successful in the industry?

    david

94. 94 Rob Nov 22nd, 2007 at 6:26 pm

    Piers,

    Looking to start in Europe, could you inform me about a firm in London ?

    Thanks.

95. 95 joel goodsen Nov 26th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Anyone heard of Maverick Trading out of Cicago ?

    I have a friend who’s college roomate supposedly runs it and is trying to sign me up as aprop trader.

    Just wondering if they are legit.

96. 96 Piers Nov 26th, 2007 at 1:55 pm

    Rob, depends on what you’re looking for I guess. Are you already trading at a prop house out in the States? What products are you looking to trade? Are you looking for graduate traineeships or wanting to back yourself?

    Give me some more info and I can be a bit more specific.

    Cheers

97. 97 Derek Nov 26th, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    Anyone heard of SMW trading? I’m just out of college and interested in learning more about how the trading industry works. I received a call from SMW today and they want to interview me. I honestly have no idea what to expect or the questions I should be asking. Thanks for the help.

    dhktns@excite.com

98. 98 joel goodsen Nov 26th, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    Ok so I WANT to risk my $5-10K to get 20:1 leverage - where do I go to do this without th