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	<title>Comments on: Mutual Fund Cash Levels &#038; NYSE Free Credits</title>
	<link>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html</link>
	<description>Freshly squeezed market commentary &#038; analysis</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: tradeking13</title>
		<link>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54532</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 02:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54532</guid>
					<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hussman.net/wmc/wmc060710.htm&quot;&gt;There's No Such Thing as Idle Cash on the Sidelines&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.hussman.net/wmc/wmc060710.htm">There&#8217;s No Such Thing as Idle Cash on the Sidelines</a>
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		<title>by: wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54530</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54530</guid>
					<description>Response to TradeKing's first riddle, 

If you assumed that equity capitalization   equity cash was static, then you could not create more cash supply from any sale because as you pointed out it would be a &quot;zero sum&quot; game..   However it is not static.  There is new cash entering and leaving the playing field from various sources such govt money printing, the creation of new companies and asset materials such as precious metals, existing companies issuing new stock or repurchasing existing stock, sell and purchase of other assets such as real estate and commodities, not to mention the interaction with foreign assets.  In a recession/depression, cash leaves the playing field to pay other living expenses that it would not normally be needed for.

Your second hypothetical, where everyone purchases at the same time is simply the converse of your first riddle.  If all the cash decided to buy,  The equity players who sold would then become the cash pool.  If they in turn decided to turn around and rebuy equities, then the process would continue to cycle.  But every time there is a sale, the seller, is momentarily left with cash. 

Another separate comment is that the money market supplies don't change as much as does the relationship to the sum totals of cash and equity.

For example purposes, assume that 3 players comprised all the equity assets and cash assets in the playing field and assume that

Player A owns 1 trillion in equities
Player B owns 1 trillion in equities
Player C owns 1 trillion held in temporary cash (mm) account.

Assume no new players or cash enter the game.

The % of cash to equity Cash is 33%

Now assume that equity prices have decreased by 50%, similar to 2008-09. Now all of sudden 

Player A owns 1/2 trillion in equities
Player B owns 1/2 trillion in equities
Player C still owns 1 trillion in cash
 
Now the % of Cash to Equity Cash is 50%, but the actual cash amount has not changed.

Now assume Player C decides to buy equities with all of his cash.  Then the relationship would become

Player A owns 1/2 trillion in equities
Player B owns 1/2 trillion in equities
Player C owns 1 trillion in equities.

The % of cash to equity Cash is still 33%, it has simply been redistributed.   But the point is that the % of cash moved from 50% to 33% based solely on price of equities and not who decided to buy or sale.

Again this is all theoretical based on a static capitalization playing field and I point out again that the cash in the playing field is not static, but usually growing due to inflationary pressures and a litany of other reasons, some of which I pointed out in the first paragraph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Response to TradeKing&#8217;s first riddle, </p>
<p>If you assumed that equity capitalization   equity cash was static, then you could not create more cash supply from any sale because as you pointed out it would be a &#8220;zero sum&#8221; game..   However it is not static.  There is new cash entering and leaving the playing field from various sources such govt money printing, the creation of new companies and asset materials such as precious metals, existing companies issuing new stock or repurchasing existing stock, sell and purchase of other assets such as real estate and commodities, not to mention the interaction with foreign assets.  In a recession/depression, cash leaves the playing field to pay other living expenses that it would not normally be needed for.</p>
<p>Your second hypothetical, where everyone purchases at the same time is simply the converse of your first riddle.  If all the cash decided to buy,  The equity players who sold would then become the cash pool.  If they in turn decided to turn around and rebuy equities, then the process would continue to cycle.  But every time there is a sale, the seller, is momentarily left with cash. </p>
<p>Another separate comment is that the money market supplies don&#8217;t change as much as does the relationship to the sum totals of cash and equity.</p>
<p>For example purposes, assume that 3 players comprised all the equity assets and cash assets in the playing field and assume that</p>
<p>Player A owns 1 trillion in equities<br />
Player B owns 1 trillion in equities<br />
Player C owns 1 trillion held in temporary cash (mm) account.</p>
<p>Assume no new players or cash enter the game.</p>
<p>The % of cash to equity Cash is 33%</p>
<p>Now assume that equity prices have decreased by 50%, similar to 2008-09. Now all of sudden </p>
<p>Player A owns 1/2 trillion in equities<br />
Player B owns 1/2 trillion in equities<br />
Player C still owns 1 trillion in cash</p>
<p>Now the % of Cash to Equity Cash is 50%, but the actual cash amount has not changed.</p>
<p>Now assume Player C decides to buy equities with all of his cash.  Then the relationship would become</p>
<p>Player A owns 1/2 trillion in equities<br />
Player B owns 1/2 trillion in equities<br />
Player C owns 1 trillion in equities.</p>
<p>The % of cash to equity Cash is still 33%, it has simply been redistributed.   But the point is that the % of cash moved from 50% to 33% based solely on price of equities and not who decided to buy or sale.</p>
<p>Again this is all theoretical based on a static capitalization playing field and I point out again that the cash in the playing field is not static, but usually growing due to inflationary pressures and a litany of other reasons, some of which I pointed out in the first paragraph.
</p>
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		<title>by: Just try</title>
		<link>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54529</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54529</guid>
					<description>Re: then how do you explain fluctuations in Money Market Funds? Answer that, and you probably have the answer to your original question.

&quot;Money&quot; can be invested to all kinds of other assets like bonds or withdrawed to put into bank CD for example...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: then how do you explain fluctuations in Money Market Funds? Answer that, and you probably have the answer to your original question.</p>
<p>&#8220;Money&#8221; can be invested to all kinds of other assets like bonds or withdrawed to put into bank CD for example&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54526</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54526</guid>
					<description>tradeking13 - that last one is a good one.  Admittedly, I don't have an answer for you right now.  

Twisting the question around a bit: if cash levels don't change or, as you put it, there is always a ton of money on the sidelines, implying that those levels stay the same...then how do you explain fluctuations in Money Market Funds?  Answer that, and you probably have the answer to your original question.  

Yours is a great question though!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tradeking13 - that last one is a good one.  Admittedly, I don&#8217;t have an answer for you right now.  </p>
<p>Twisting the question around a bit: if cash levels don&#8217;t change or, as you put it, there is always a ton of money on the sidelines, implying that those levels stay the same&#8230;then how do you explain fluctuations in Money Market Funds?  Answer that, and you probably have the answer to your original question.  </p>
<p>Yours is a great question though!
</p>
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		<title>by: tradeking13</title>
		<link>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54488</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54488</guid>
					<description>Let me posit this hypothetical.  One morning, every person who owns shares in an MMF decides he/she needs to get into the equity market.  So, all the money &quot;pours&quot; in from the sidelines into the market.  MMF levels are at zero; the sidelines are empty.  How can anyone cash out at this point, when hypothetically there is no cash left?

There is a reason they call it &quot;trading&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me posit this hypothetical.  One morning, every person who owns shares in an MMF decides he/she needs to get into the equity market.  So, all the money &#8220;pours&#8221; in from the sidelines into the market.  MMF levels are at zero; the sidelines are empty.  How can anyone cash out at this point, when hypothetically there is no cash left?</p>
<p>There is a reason they call it &#8220;trading&#8221;.
</p>
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		<title>by: Babak</title>
		<link>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54484</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54484</guid>
					<description>So you're saying that cash levels are irrelevant? re &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tradersnarrative.com/ibes-valuation-model-stocks-ridiculously-undervalued-630.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;IBES&lt;/a&gt;, not again. Once burned, twice shy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you&#8217;re saying that cash levels are irrelevant? re <a href="http://www.tradersnarrative.com/ibes-valuation-model-stocks-ridiculously-undervalued-630.html" rel="nofollow">IBES</a>, not again. Once burned, twice shy.
</p>
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		<title>by: tradeking13</title>
		<link>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54481</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54481</guid>
					<description>If Trader 'A' buys more stock from let's say Trader 'C', then now Trader 'C' is on the sidelines with cash (rinse, repeat).  There is always a ton of &quot;money on the sidelines&quot;; it doesn't dissappear when you purchase stock (or anything else for that matter).  The only thing that changes is the agreed upon price.  

Interestingly, I have noticed this argument trotted out when there are no more fundamental arguments to justify market valuation.  I heard it a lot in the Spring '07, Fall '07, and Spring '08.  Now I hear it again.  Next, I expect to hear about how the stock market is cheap according to the IBES/Fed model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Trader &#8216;A&#8217; buys more stock from let&#8217;s say Trader &#8216;C&#8217;, then now Trader &#8216;C&#8217; is on the sidelines with cash (rinse, repeat).  There is always a ton of &#8220;money on the sidelines&#8221;; it doesn&#8217;t dissappear when you purchase stock (or anything else for that matter).  The only thing that changes is the agreed upon price.  </p>
<p>Interestingly, I have noticed this argument trotted out when there are no more fundamental arguments to justify market valuation.  I heard it a lot in the Spring &#8216;07, Fall &#8216;07, and Spring &#8216;08.  Now I hear it again.  Next, I expect to hear about how the stock market is cheap according to the IBES/Fed model.
</p>
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		<title>by: Babak</title>
		<link>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54478</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54478</guid>
					<description>Depends on what 'A' spends the free credits or cash on from the sale of his stocks. If he buys more stocks, then yes, money has been removed from the sidelines. If he takes it out and buys a boat, then no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends on what &#8216;A&#8217; spends the free credits or cash on from the sale of his stocks. If he buys more stocks, then yes, money has been removed from the sidelines. If he takes it out and buys a boat, then no.
</p>
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		<title>by: tradeking13</title>
		<link>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54473</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54473</guid>
					<description>Here's a riddle:

Trader A (on the sidelines) buys stock from Trader B (in the game).  Now Trader A is in the game and Trader B is on the sidelines with the cash received from Trader A.  

Has any money been removed from the sidelines?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a riddle:</p>
<p>Trader A (on the sidelines) buys stock from Trader B (in the game).  Now Trader A is in the game and Trader B is on the sidelines with the cash received from Trader A.  </p>
<p>Has any money been removed from the sidelines?
</p>
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		<title>by: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54455</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.tradersnarrative.com/mutual-fund-cash-levels-nyse-free-credits-2880.html#comment-54455</guid>
					<description>&quot;NYSE Free Credits&quot;  Great post.  Thank you.  Hadn't thought about this since my days as a broker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;NYSE Free Credits&#8221;  Great post.  Thank you.  Hadn&#8217;t thought about this since my days as a broker.
</p>
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